Switching from BRS 2-Part to All-For-Reef....Question

[BigMax]

Question for anyone who has switched from BRS 2-part to All-For-Reef.

I currently have a 90 gallon system containing LPS and SPS. I'm dosing 50ml Soda Ash and 50ml Calcium Chloride daily, and this has been my consumption for well over a year.

Tropic Marin recommends starting with All-For-Reef at 5ml per 26 gallons to start. So, rather than the combined 100ml of 2 part I'm currently dosing I would be dosing All-For-Reef at a rate of 17.3ml daily. That seem is extremely low? Wondering if anyone who has converted from 2-part to All-For Reef can provide their equivalency? I would like to target something that would start me more in the same ballpark. Thx

 

[exnisstech]

Following as I'm considering switching from 2part (esv) to AFR. Just curious wouldn't you need to know what your consumption rate is before you can calculate dosage? Speaking from 2 part usage.

 

[Reefer911]

You can’t compare the two simply by the volume of liquid since they’re two completely different substances. Unless there is an actual conversion chart or formula for the switch, it’s probably going to be trial and error. I’d start by following TM’s dosing schedule and maybe cutting back on it. Or maybe even continue the 2-part but cut it in half and start slow with TM and gradually make the change. Not sure what the best course of action would be but I’d tend to go with the latter of the two.

 

[BigMax]

Following as I'm considering switching from 2part (esv) to AFR. Just curious wouldn't you need to know what your consumption rate is before you can calculate dosage? Speaking from 2 part usage.

Below is the Tropic Marin recommendation. I assume because many of us are using different manufacturers additives they would need to create an equivalency chart by manufacturer?

Tropic Marin directions: Start with a daily dose of 5 ml of All-For-Reef per 100 liters (26 US-gal) of aquarium system volume. Increase the daily dosage – by continuous control of the alkalinity – weekly by 2.5 ml per 100 liters (26 US-gal) of aquarium system volume, until a constant carbonate hardness of 7 to 9°dH is reached.

Tropic Marin does give the specs for 1000ml of the solution (for example 6,000dKH of carbonate hardness concentration etc.) but I cannot find the same for the BRS 2-pat to do the calculation. Maybe you'll have better luck finding the ESV info?

 

[BigMax]

You can’t compare the two simply by the volume of liquid since they’re two completely different substances. Unless there is an actual conversion chart or formula for the switch, it’s probably going to be trial and error. I’d start by following TM’s dosing schedule and maybe cutting back on it. Or maybe even continue the 2-part but cut it in half and start slow with TM and gradually make the change. Not sure what the best course of action would be but I’d tend to go with the latter of the two.

Agreed. I'm a little lite on time and don't want to test Alk and Cal everyday until I find the sweet spot, or at least the ballpark. Hoping for an easier way to get started. But, it feels like the 17.3ml can't be equivalent to 100ml, I would assume the 17.3 would be supersaturated at that point so therefore something significantly more than 17.3ml is required?

 

[exnisstech]

So TM does not give an amount to dose to raise alk a certain amount? I'm not a chemist so this is simplified for me ;) Say 100 gallons alk is 7.0 and I want to raise it to 8.0 I have to guess and play with dosage rather than know how much to dose to raise alk a certain amount per water volume? I know what my consumption is and exactly how much 2 part I need to dose. Just looking for clarification as I would never switch from 2 part to AFR if there is no way to calculate dosage needed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So TM does not give an amount to dose to raise alk a certain amount? I'm not a chemist so this is simplified for me ;) Say 100 gallons alk is 7.0 and I want to raise it to 8.0 I have to guess and play with dosage rather than know how much to dose to raise alk a certain amount per water volume? I know what my consumption is and exactly how much 2 part I need to dose. Just looking for clarification as I would never switch from 2 part to AFR if there is no way to calculate dosage needed.

they do, but they do not promote using it that way. I’m always leary of giving concentration for all for reef because their advertising descriptions have errors/ambiguities in it.

BRS two part (the soda ash version) is my recipe. It is 5300 dKH and All for reef is 37,000 ppm calcium.

 

[anthonymckay]

I found AFR pretty difficult to dial in and maintain consistent levels due to the delayed nature of Calcium Formate raising alkalinity and being able to test it. What is your motivation for switching from 2-part to AFR?

 

[exnisstech]

I found AFR pretty difficult to dial in and maintain consistent levels due to the delayed nature of Calcium Formate raising alkalinity and being able to test it. What is your motivation for switching from 2-part to AFR?

Not the OP but I was considering it as I could use a single doser. I'm only dosing 15ml a day of 2 part and do it manually so will most likely stick with esv as it's been working well. Just looking to simplify a bit but probably not worth upsetting the system.

 

[BigMax]

they do, but they do not promote using it that way. I’m always leary of giving concentration for all for reef because their advertising descriptions have errors/ambiguities in it.

BRS two part (the soda ash version) is my recipe. It is 5300 dKH and All for reef is 37,000 ppm calcium.

Is that 5300 dKH per liter?

I intend to add NP-Bacto to my auto dosing schedule, but the amount recommended is only 1.4ml per day. I considered diluting NP-Bacto in RODI or distilled water, but wondered if that was acceptable? (This was in order to more accurately control the amount of NP-Bacto dosing due to doser resolution). Also with 5 foot dosing lines dosing 1.4ml per day is totally impractical, due to one week shelf life of non-refrigerated NP-Bacto. Tropic Marin was kind enough to provide a response to the question of diluting NP-Bacto:

"Unfortunately NP-Bacto-Balance cannot be diluted with RODI water since this would grow bacteria which degrade the product and would most likely form lots of bacterial slime. However, it can be diluted with All-For-Reef (recommended) or Carbo-Calcium. In this way you can combine NP-Bacto-Balance with calcium and alkalinity dosing. This mix should be stable."

So, I thought I would just switch to All-For-Reef. Likely I could add the NP-Bacto to my soda ash dosing? But why not give All-For-Reef a try for overall simplification dosing requirements.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

5300 dKH is a complete unit. It is 5300 dKH in one mL and in 1000 gallons.

That is why the tropic begin descriptions are lacking and ambiguous when they specify a volume.

I would not put any bacteria product in pure fresh water of any sort, nor any alk or calcium additive. If it is just nutrients and not bacteria, it can likely go in an alk additive but not calcium.

 

[DanATL]

I found AFR pretty difficult to dial in and maintain consistent levels due to the delayed nature of Calcium Formate raising alkalinity and being able to test it. What is your motivation for switching from 2-part to AFR?

I'm getting ready to start dosing AFR and have seen several references to delay in calcium formate raising alkalinity. I have not seen any info on how long it takes to show up in tests. Any idea?

My other question is if the rise in alkalinity is itself delayed or just the testing of it?

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Following as I'm considering switching from 2part (esv) to AFR. Just curious wouldn't you need to know what your consumption rate is before you can calculate dosage? Speaking from 2 part usage.

Don't go!

 

[exnisstech]

Don't go!

Thanks. I decided to stick with ESV.

 

[A Young Reefer]

I found AFR pretty difficult to dial in and maintain consistent levels due to the delayed nature of Calcium Formate raising alkalinity and being able to test it. What is your motivation for switching from 2-part to AFR?

Agreed, AFR was a nightmare.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Agreed, AFR was a nightmare.

What happened that you didn't like?

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

For me was not as easy for me to get alkalinity dialed in, as it is with a Sodium carbonate two part. I've only tried the powdered version and mixed carefully to instructions, It could be operator error of course, but I had enough time with it to decide its not for me and my style. :)

Also I noticed with a large batch of powdered afr I would get a separation of something, a brown substance at the bottom of the resivor, leading me to believe it would eventually lead to an unbalanced dose of something.

 

[A Young Reefer]

What happened that you didn't like?

It was calcium formates delayed behaviour that made it difficult to adjust dosages. My tank consumption massively increased and the dosage became ridiculous. More over, AFR was out of stock most of the time around where I live.
Something I personally noticed that was quite inconvenient is the inconsistencies between bottles, inconsistencies in colour (even though I was told it’s doesn’t matter) and in parameters. I switched to TM balling and it’s great so far.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

I am a week in switching to AFR from Kaulk. After a week, my CAL is 10pts higher at 455, my PH is the same 8.3 (day) But my Alk dropped to 7.5 (1.5 pt).
I switched because with my 40g I was doing a 1000ml a day which was equal to my avg. evap. But I was making Kaulk every other day. So I figured if I only have to dose 10ml. a day I am all good. still too early to tell. May have to dose a bit more of Alk separately.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

It was calcium formates delayed behaviour that made it difficult to adjust dosages. My tank consumption massively increased and the dosage became ridiculous. More over, AFR was out of stock most of the time around where I live.
Something I personally noticed that was quite inconvenient is the inconsistencies between bottles, inconsistencies in colour (even though I was told it’s doesn’t matter) and in parameters. I switched to TM balling and it’s great so far.

OK, thanks for the info. :)