Taking the training wheels off

[ArtsyFish]

I don't trust my LFS. I have gotten very different responses to my questions from the various employees. The management is not very helpful. Sad to say.

I rely on information from this forum and the BRS group on facebook as well as the sellers I buy from and come to my own conclusions. It works for me so far after a year in this hobby.

 

[schuby]

Don't miss these questions:

1. How well equipped are you to tell if someone is giving us fact or opinion?

2. How do you wade through and determine fact from opinion?

3. What factors into your decision making process?

1. Much of the "facts" on here are each person's experience. Whether the stated cause and effect are accurate, that is for each of us to decide. I try to use critical thinking when I'm looking for an answer to a specific question. Sometimes I get the wrong answer and end up in the school of hard-knocks.

2. For some people on here, what they say makes sense to me, over many different threads. I tend to believe them more on a new topic. I choose to never have blind-faith in anybody's solution. Each of our tank's is unique and someone else's experience/solution may or may not work for our tank's current issue. Some solutions may cause more severe issues.

3. My own experience and the advice of members that I have a lot of confidence in affect my decisions the most. Being on this forum close to two year now, I'm much better situated to decide what to believe or not. This is from reading the same members posts over that time.

Some of my initial choices were flawed because the people making the same statements didn't have the experience that I had at first thought they had. For example, when I was deciding to use live rock or not, I researched online about this topic. I found many cases where people said it doesn't matter, after a few months, it is the same either way. I chose not to use live rock in my current tank. Now that I've started a tank with live rock and without, I know that it is very different. Everything seems more difficult and takes much longer without live rock. I only blame myself because I chose to believe other's online statements without any background on those making the statements.

Just like real life, ask someone who you know to be successful with the subject, if at all possible. Even better, ask more than one person.

 

[kzitzman1]

We have an amazing LFS that is family owned (Rusty's Reefs) and they are both very knowledgeable and honest. That is by far my top source of information and advice and also where I buy all my livestock. R2R would be second, but honestly it's hit or miss on the amount of replies, but great for searching something that has already been discussed. Third is doing a google search and then trying to determine the reliability of the info.

 

[kzitzman1]

Don't miss these questions:

1. How well equipped are you to tell if someone is giving us fact or opinion?

2. How do you wade through and determine fact from opinion?

3. What factors into your decision making process?

1. I'm not an expert, so unless info comes from a source I truly trust I always research more to either confirm or contrast advice given. Over time you learn a couple trusted sources. For me, my go to LFS falls under this category. His experience and knowledge is great and I've learned over time that he and his wife really do know what they are talking about and it's my first go for info.

2. If I'm not extremely confident in my source (and even when I am) I tend to do my own research to see what other idea/info/advice are out there. This can often create confusion with a lot of varying opinions. Then that's when I have learned to trust my proven sources.

3. Personal advice from trusted sources and my own research lead me to make final decisions. So far that has worked well and also helps me to work towards becoming my own SME over time.

 

[mattdg]

Books and forums used to be my go to. I became disenchanted with both, especially having shared so much myself, over many years, on the "other forum" with broken links to all of my photos. Yes, I'm referring to you PHOTOBUCKET. BOOOO! Thank God for R2R, taking the responsibility to host photos on their server. Thank you for not dropping the ball and keeping up with the times.

Anyway, after years lost, I did decide to check out youtube and was surprised by all it had to offer. Granted, you will need to sift through a great deal of misinformation, but their are a wealth of respectable hobbyist as well as small and large businesses making quality informative videos. I'm even doing it myself now with the Craft Aquatic channel. I discovered Reef News Network podcast a few years back. What an awesome resource that has been and SO entertaining! They have put out a quality video every week, for two years. Just crazy.

With all that said, nothing can replace real relationships with actual experienced hobbyists, if you are fortunate enough to live around people who share your interests. That will always be the best source for aquarium related info, hands down.

 

[Matthew Hood]

Taking the training wheels off

I might have said this a time or two, “it’s no secret that this hobby has a steep learning curve”. And when we run into an issue, we sometimes have difficulty seeking answers to the questions that currently plague us. For most of us a good source would be the person working at the LFS, a local hobbyist, books or perhaps you turn to social media, forums or online videos. I would venture to say that the majority of us use a combination of these resources to seek answers.

The underlying concern always seems to be “how credible is the information provided?” A lot of times it’s hard to discern between fact and opinion. That in its self has a steep learning curve. In order for us to answer that question, we tend to pull from our life experiences to determine whether or not the information fits into our personal truths. On one hand you can be rooted in academia and seek hard evidence before you accept it as fact, or you can be grounded in theology and allow feeling to be your litmus test.

No matter where you fall on that spectrum a lot of times there isn’t hard evidence and we have to lean heavily on anecdotal accounts. Or the information that is provided is unquestionably true but the messenger is a bit curt.

1. How well equipped are you to tell if someone is giving us fact or opinion?

2. How do you wade through and determine fact from opinion?

3. What factors into your decision making process?


Thanks again to @Sisterlimonpot for this thoughtful QOTD!

I have to say that the majority of my information comes from R2R and BRSTV. I do on occasion pop open one of my many aquarium/reefing books but find that some information/standards have become outdated.

I think that is something to be wary of, outdated info. No matter where it's coming from. Other than that, if you can find reliable sources, then all of these options are good ones. Sorting thru the garbage, to find those trusted sources, can be tough at times though. BRS is such a great resource due to the scientific method they apply. =)

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

I have to say that the majority of my information comes from R2R and BRSTV.

Perfect, thank you for your answer. This gets closer to the premise of todays question. These questions aren't necessarily directed at you but more to the community. My clarifying question is, do you factor in that companies make videos first and foremost to sell products? Not to say that the information isn't peppered with selective facts, but that it's more designed to persuade your opinion of a product.

And just to be clear I'm not singling out any particular company.

And how about companies that aren't as easy to see their true intent? The ones that leverage user traffic for advertising dollars. It can be debated that that business model would naturally popularize opinionated content over factual information as well.

Do you consider those aspects?
-Or-
Does it not even appear on your radar?

 

[drblakjak55]

Been keeping fish since 1965. Finally 90g tank with 20g sump fell in my lap four years ago. Set up info from Mike at Norwalk Petco. Early fish and coral info from New Canaan Life Aquatics. Great practical info from R2R the rest of the way. Only trial and error teach you what will actually live in your tank.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

Perfect, thank you for your answer. This gets closer to the premise of todays question. These questions aren't necessarily directed at you but more to the community. My clarifying question is, do you factor in that companies make videos first and foremost to sell products? Not to say that the information isn't peppered with selective facts, but that it's more designed to persuade your opinion of a product.

And just to be clear I'm not singling out any particular company.

And how about companies that aren't as easy to see their true intent? The ones that leverage user traffic for advertising dollars. It can be debated that that business model would naturally popularize opinionated content over factual information as well.

Do you consider those aspects?
-Or-
Does it not even appear on your radar?

Get to know the people in the business and from there it is person by person. I trust my local petco but only because I know the aquatics manager is an avid reefer who will help me to the best of his ability.

Edit: Cavat to this is I also know BRS is out there to make money. I take things with a grain a salt and back up claims by others with no financial gain. lol

 

[Rubymoon286]

R2R is my main go to followed by BRS, then facebook groups. I lurked for a long time before joining r2r when I first started because we don't have an LFS near by.

1. How well equipped are you to tell if someone is giving us fact or opinion?
I feel pretty well equipped to tell the difference at this point.

2. How do you wade through and determine fact from opinion?
Honestly if there seems to be strong consensus I tend to lean towards that answer typically.

3. What factors into your decision making process?
The number of same answers from multiple sources, the number of posts a person has here, or on facebook, and if BRS says something that is backed up by r2r, it solidifies it for me.

 

[kruler]

R2R is usually my first stop. Something I do that I think is good practice is vetting someone who is giving advice by seeing if I can find pics of their tank by searching their threads/posts. If their tank looks great and they've been active for a long time, that gives me more faith that they are speaking from experience and not just regurgitating bits and pieces of info they picked up from reading forums.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Other - BRS videos

1. How well equipped are you to tell if someone is giving us fact or opinion?

Knowledge is power and after many years and scenarios, you tend to know

2. How do you wade through and determine fact from opinion?

You research using credible sources ( not youtube although there are some good you-tubers and certain outside forums)

3. What factors into your decision making process?

Knowing what I'm doing and why i'm doing it and what to expect as a result from such decision such as impact or expected results.

 

[Weasel1960]

Boy talk about loaded questions. I first read a bunch of books then started surfing the internet. BRS usually has informative how to, and product videos. You Tube is sometimes questionable, but I watch what their tanks and equipment look like. R2R and local hobbyist are same to me. You guys are great even when you agree to disagree.

 

[damselindistress]

As others have said - my top resources int this order:

R2R
BRS
LFS

 

[scabbedwings616]

What I’ve done is ask fellow Reefers that have tanks I really like and ask what they are doing. Ask what they keep their tanks at and see if I can match that. I typically just ask what the stores keep their parameters at and about the fish themselves. Other than that I stick to this forum and local Reefers forum. I also use my apex and learn what is working and what isn’t working and documenting it. If it doesn’t seem to change i stop doing it slowly in the tank. I think the best way is try things out and if the corals and fish like it stick to it. If not, then stop doing it but slowly. Consistency is key in this hobby and if you can, your tank will flourish. Learn what your tank likes and doesn’t like. You will know before any questions are answered on forums.

 

[NanJ]

We are very fortunate to have a knowledgeable, reliable, professional LFS (Ocean’s Floor in Greenville, SC). The owner installed our system and his staff come once a month to do the “heavy lifting” maintenance. We use the owner’s advice as our compass with BRS videos and R2R as supplements to fill in gaps.

1. How well equipped are you to tell if someone is giving us fact or opinion?
My husband and I have been in the hobby for 2 years. After countless hours of research to learn the science of the hobby I feel pretty confident in parsing fact vs opinion.

2. How do you wade through and determine fact from opinion?
It is part experience in “how to learn from the internet “ no matter what subject I am interested in and part gut instinct/sniff test.

3. What factors into your decision making process?
Science to the extent it can be applied to a hobby and experience of the source.

 

[MinnReef]

Really wish I could say my LFS but he and his employee is a bit corrupt and really seem to focus just on selling fish and not the well-being of animals. Frag tanks loaded with flatworms, aptaisa, GHA, and the fish do no go through QT at all, all the tanks have a common sump too. I guess they get away with it because they are the only Saltwater store within a 3-hour radius. Besides all that I mainly use Instagram, Reef2Reef/NanoReef, and Youtube to get my info...livestock I either have to order online (expensive as heck for my college budget), get stuff from work (Petco) or suck it up and go to the LFS

 

[CavalierReef]

I want to know what podcasts are out there?

Melevsreef

 

[Indytraveler83]

1. How well equipped are you to tell if someone is giving us fact or opinion?

This is a hard question in a hobby like this. There's still a lot of evolution to be done in reef keeping, and there's a lot of ways to achieve results. "Fact" five years ago might be an absolute lie today.

2. How do you wade through and determine fact from opinion?

I try to ask two questions 1) Does the source of this information want to sell me something? 2) Is this source a recognized expert?

No offense to any of the vendors that provide really valuable info, but I will never let someone change my mind when they stand to profit. It's also the reason I never ask my lfs for advice.

I think the best sources of info right now are the experts and in some cases scientists who are keeping a reef right now, and provide information voluntarily with no profit in mind (the main reason I visit this forum).

3. What factors into your decision making process?

Again, are they trying to sell me something? What are this sources credentials? Have they successful kept the animal I'm trying to keep? Have they successfully solved the problem I'm trying to solve?


Another thought here: Does the information I received stay consistent with my reef keeping method? One thing this hobby does a poor job of is recognizing the diversity of animals and requirements needed for a successful reef. My low-tech softy tank that relies on a large refugium and live rock will not benefit from many of the methods used on a high tech acro system.

 

[vlangel]

Another thought here: Does the information I received stay consistent with my reef keeping method? One thing this hobby does a poor job of is recognizing the diversity of animals and requirements needed for a successful reef. My low-tech softy tank that relies on a large refugium and live rock will not benefit from many of the methods used on a high tech acro system.

I too keep a low tech softie/LPS dominant reef with a macro algae/seagrass fuge/sump, (that double my water volume) and live rock. My equipment is a return pump, a powerhead (no controller), a heater, cheap par 30 LEDs for the fuge and an old Coralife HOT5 fixture for the display. Biology does my heavy lifting as far as water quality, not tech or equipment.