OP
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4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
It depends, a few weeks would probably work. It may not work ever. It’s hard to say. Recover a couple weeks and then in a box for a week or two in the tank would be my course of action.
Tang Aggression - Understanding and Combating
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4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
I suspect that fish get aggressive in the evening before dark because that is when they find spots to hide for the night to be safe from predators. They defend these “sleeping holes” like life and death sometimes, because in the ocean it literally would be a case of life and death. Night time is when the hunters look for fish that aren’t well hidden.
I suspect this is why that behavior occurs. @HotRocks tank gets really testy an hour or so before the lights turn off. I’m guessing that is why, instinctually tangs (and other fish) get testy before night time. Dominant fish get the safest hiding holes
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HotRocks
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Jason that makes all the sense in the world to me!I suspect that fish get aggressive in the evening before dark because they find spots to hide for the high to be safe from predators. They defend these “sleeping holes” like life and death sometimes, because in the ocean it literally would be a case of life and death. Night time is when the hunters look for fish that aren’t well hidden.
I suspect this is why that behavior occurs. @HotRocks tank gets really testy an hour or so before the lights off. I’m guessing that is why, instinctually tangs (and other fish) get testy before night time. Dominant fish get the safest hiding holes
I kinda figure it was something to do with their natural instincts to protect their food source or their "homes". What's strange is that the YT has no issues with the smaller tang or any other fish but can't seem to tolerate the Naso at night. They can feed on the same seaweed clip at the same time and when I broadcast feed with no aggression.
MetaKnight101
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I’m glad my yellow tang and blue tang get alongSo what's the deal with tangs? How do I keep them together? Why are they so aggressive and difficult to keep sometimes? It's a common discussion point. Some may dissent with what I have to share but I've never had less than three tanks running at a time, up to 7, and have been in the hobby 12 years with 2 of them spent working for an LFS running their saltwater fish dept largely, for what it's worth.
Root of Tang Aggression:Understand that from a tangs point of view, more herbivores means less algae. They've evolved to defend their patch of algae and territory very hard because they may starve if someone else comes in and takes it over. It's literally life or death for them. Angels and other herbivores are occasionally ousted but tangs in particular are often in direct competition for food and will be heckled heavily. The only herbivore that is tolerated (sometimes) is foxface. This is because they're venomous. Even still I've seen tangs stress them to death literally.
Tangs are often most aggressive to members of the same species in home aquaria and species in the same genus. When not schooling, they often protect a patch of rock from other fish, often other tangs, particularly tangs of the same species. (It is much more likely that they will compete for food since their diet is identical)
Tangs are also more likely to be aggressive in the home aquaria because they are stressed and in smaller quarters. Even the best hobbyists have questionable environments compared to their natural homes in the ocean. Fish that swim several miles each day such as many acanthurus tangs (particularly PBT, Achilles, etc) feel cramped and as with any organism that is stressed, they can respond to this by "acting out" (aggression).
The author keeps quite a few tangs in his own aquarium as you can see in the 2 photos below.
What Does Tang Aggression Look Like?
Tangs are purpose built for eating algae and defending said food source. They're equipped with at least one scalpel near the base of the tail for "swiping" other fish. This is where the name "surgeonfish" came from. These can do a lot of damage and leave serious lascerations. When adding or mixing tangs, be on the lookout for aggression and know when to implement "Plan B". Constant chasing, nipping, and swiping is not a good sign and unlikely to stop. As you'll read later, some species hold grudges forever and others let bygones be bygones on occasion. It's your job as the hobbyist to know when to intervene. Occasional chasing, flaring fins, circling each other, or swiping motions that are clearly a dominance display rather than a tue attempt at puncturing the other fish should be noted but are common in a tank mixed with territorial herbivores.
With all of this in mind, your existing tangs are not going to be welcoming.
The degree of aggression the new tangs receive can be curbed by a few things:
1) Keep them very very well fed. Keep enough nori in there that by the end of the day it is gone but they have access to it for most of the day. This will make them feel like they need to compete less, but it's no guarantee.
2) Re-arrange rockwork. This can be successful because the tang feels like they are no longer in their territory temporarily and may hesitate to be as aggressive as otherwise.
3) Add multiple tangs at a time. Tangs can take some serious abuse, but 3 on 1 new addition is terrible odds. It may work but the new fish will be very stressed and possibly stabbed several times. Even if only one new tang heckled the new tang it would not be a fair fight - a fat established and possibly more aggressive species targeting a fish that has been through heck getting to you and as such has a weak immune system, is thinner presumably because it hasn't eaten as it should, and is very stressed. More tangs will increase distraction and will break up aggression considerably, providing you don't have a tang that singles one of the newcomers out. Powder blue are notorious for picking a grudge and taking it to their grave. Other aggressive species often simmer down in a weeks time. If the fish makes it that long things should get better, presuming they don't succumb to ich or other parasites.
4) Use acclimation boxes. This shields the newcomer from attacks from other fish and gets them used to seeing the new fish. It also allows the new fish to adjust a bit so that it is better able to defend itself and know its surroundings better.
5) Mirrors placed in the corner of the tank. For a very aggressive tang, sometimes a mirror placed in the corners will keep the fish flashing and attacking itself rather than harassing a new addition. I've personally never done this but have heard of some limited success.
6) Removal of the problem fish and a re-introduction later. This can work because the tank pecking order is disrupted. The fish will be confused by the change and work out their own new pecking order and be less concerned with harassing the newcomers. Upon reintroduction some few days or months later, assumedly the new fish will not be the tank boss and will not be as territorial as a result (since it is not his territory now - yet)
7) A combination of these ideas. To hedge your bets, mixing strategies may well be worth the effort.
8) If you are planning to add tangs of the same genus, definitely add more than one. I frequently break the rules with tangs. One tank has a PBT and Achilles tang together, another has a PBT, Achilles, and goldrim together. I even have a pair of achilles together (do NOT try this at home). They get along great. This wasn't easy and some fish had to be moved around and they were added simultaneously most of the time. I've always kept purple, yellow, and sailfins as a trio. Again, adding at the same time. They've always gotten along well. I've done this for 12 years with more than three test groups in various tanks on various occasions.
Adding a yellow to an established purple for instance is likely to end in the death of the yellow. Adding an Achilles to a PBT is often murder.
Notice the 2 Achilles tangs, PBT, and Goldrim together in these two photos.
9) Adding tangs of larger OR smaller size. There is different logic to this theory, both is probably valid. Add larger less aggressive tangs than your most aggressive tang to intimidate it. Again some may not be intimidated... particularly PBT.
Adding smaller tangs may make sense because the existing tang may see them as LESS of a threat for dominance in the pecking order (but still a threat to its food sources...)
Many people have different opinions but the only steadfast rule I follow is not to add tangs of the same exact size unless I am adding them in groups.
Conclusion:
Understand that none of this is fool proof. Powder blue tangs in particular are notorious for holding a permanent grudge. Months of time apart will not work if they have a "personal vendetta" to destroy a fish-- not always a tang, either.
Sohal tangs IME are not nearly as aggressive as people make them out to be. I hypothesize that a few people had terror sohal tangs and their stories keep getting repeated by other members and shared with others. As such, they get a worse rep than they deserve because of the same stories being told by several reefers. Honestly I don't even rank sohal tangs in the top 5 most aggressive tangs, although it is on my list because I've not owned all tangs
My list is this: (I'm only ranking tangs I've actually had experience with). This is just an opinion after having several of each species over the years in multiple tanks. I will mark how many I have currently of each.
1) powder blue (2)
2) purple (1)
3) Sailfin
4) yellow (1)
5) desjarini sailfin (1)
6) Sohal (1)
7) Clown (1)
8) powder brown (1)
9) Achilles (2) - most are docile but the nasty are up there with PBT
10) Atlantic blue (1)
11) goldrim/white cheek
12) Kole (1)
13) Hippo
14) YB hippo (1)
15) Chevron (1)
16) blonde naso (1)
17) Naso
I've also had an orange shoulder and scopus for a short while when I started out. Although it's been awhile I would rank them towards the bottom with aggression. Same with chocolate tangs. Onee fish for a short time is not a great sample size to draw conclusions with so I lean in others' experiences.
I hope this is helpful.
So, has anyone tried to mix a gem with an existing sohal? I was successful in mixing purples, desjardini, vlamingi, lieutenant, naso, and hippo before. Mind you I mixed the purple at different times too.
I gave away all the tangs and acquired a sohal because I wanted to reduced the bioload. Well, recently, I want to add a gem. Any advice?
I gave away all the tangs and acquired a sohal because I wanted to reduced the bioload. Well, recently, I want to add a gem. Any advice?
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4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
Sounds pretty risky, tangs have such different temperaments but with few tangs and aggressive fish it’s tough for me not to be worried!
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4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
It’s possible, but no guarantees. Kole first would be better, but even better would be quarantining them together. Two tangs is always a big risk.
So – 12’ 400G tank is just about cycled. I’ve got a yellow tang that was a bit of a bully and I think had killed the other two yellow tangs in 55G QT – they did fine in TTM, but I think the bully was defending his rock.
Got a small sailfin tang, bannerfish, and a rusty angelfish with the bully for about 2 weeks now (separated from Bully).
I’ve got 4 more yellow tangs in TTM ready to go.
And I want to get 2-3 more purple tangs and that’s it for tangs
Questions:
- Too many tangs?
- When advised to introduce the tangs to the tank all at the same time – how relative does that have to be? Same time? Within a few days/weeks?
I was thinking about:
1) Moving the sailfin tang, bannerfish, and a rusty angelfish into the new DT first.
2) Move the 4 yellow tangs into 55G QT with bully (but divided) for the remainder of QT period
3) Whether to:
Thoughts?
Got a small sailfin tang, bannerfish, and a rusty angelfish with the bully for about 2 weeks now (separated from Bully).
I’ve got 4 more yellow tangs in TTM ready to go.
And I want to get 2-3 more purple tangs and that’s it for tangs
Questions:
- Too many tangs?
- When advised to introduce the tangs to the tank all at the same time – how relative does that have to be? Same time? Within a few days/weeks?
I was thinking about:
1) Moving the sailfin tang, bannerfish, and a rusty angelfish into the new DT first.
2) Move the 4 yellow tangs into 55G QT with bully (but divided) for the remainder of QT period
3) Whether to:
a. Move the 5 yellow tangs into DT while purple tangs go through TTM and QT – then introduce purple tangs a month later? Or
b. Keep all 8 tangs in 55Gal QT and let them figure things out until QT time is done for purple tangs and move them into DT
Thoughts?
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4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
Although it’s a bio shock adding as many together as possible is best for aggression. In a tank that size even adding 3 or 4 won’t seem like much and a resident jerk tang may find it easy to badger them. I have a 405gal ten foot tank that’s next for me as well. I’ll be adding in batches of 5 for tangs, ideally. That is, two batches roughly.
No, I don’t think that’s too many tangs for a tank that size. It’s an awful lot of zebrasoma tangs but that may actually help. I hope this helps.
I would definitely add the aggressive tang in a later batch or with the other yellows for best results.
There’s something very soothing to me about zebrasoma tangs - the whole tropics thing - and having it in my office will hopefully encourage more calm for me. Water in the overflow is already helping - haha!
I’m hoping for a shoal of yellow tangs and maybe for the purple tangs too - but I’m sure that’s asking for much.
I’ll eventually raise a clutch from my clownfish pair and bring them into the new tank too.
Haven’t had much luck with angelfishes in QT unfortunately.
2 clowns
firefish
diamond goby
orange back wrasse
white banded possum wrasse
carpenter's flasher wrasse
yellow wrasse
magnificent foxface
Purple tang (in qt)
Kole tang (in qt)
Considering a Acanthurus Tennenti(lieutenant tang) or Acanthurus nigricans(whitecheek surgeonfish) in 180 gallon
Which of the two is appropriately sized for 180 gallon, and will peacefully coexist with the other two tangs?
I will add all three together in the main tank. @4FordFamily
firefish
diamond goby
orange back wrasse
white banded possum wrasse
carpenter's flasher wrasse
yellow wrasse
magnificent foxface
Purple tang (in qt)
Kole tang (in qt)
Considering a Acanthurus Tennenti(lieutenant tang) or Acanthurus nigricans(whitecheek surgeonfish) in 180 gallon
Which of the two is appropriately sized for 180 gallon, and will peacefully coexist with the other two tangs?
I will add all three together in the main tank. @4FordFamily
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4FordFamily
Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
I’d recommend the white cheek tang over the tenenti due to size. It’s also a more handsome fish, IMO. The three should be comparable but it’s always a risk with tangs— but I think your odds are good if added concurrently.
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Whitecheek looks a lot similar to powder brown tang, do they carry the same temperament as that of powder brown/blue. I mean to say are they also overly aggressive?I’d recommend the white cheek tang over the tenenti due to size. It’s also a more handsome dish, IMO. The three should be comparable but it’s always a risk with tangs— but I think your odds are good if added concurrently.
I know that this post is a few years old, but can you list all of the fish you have in this tank? And what size tank is it?
They can all play along as long as they are well fed and lots of room to roam. Have to agree that the PBT is probably the most aggressive of them all!
@4FordFamily we are going to be transitioning our fish from the QT to the DT after having the DT run fallow for 76 days. Our DT is 300g. The fish that are currently in our tank are as follows:
2 clown fish
1 coral beauty
1 yellow tang 3-4”
1 hippo tang 3-4”
1 Naso Tang 3-4”
We would like to purchase additional tangs and introduce all at the same time after we quarantine them. We are looking for advice as to which tangs you would recommend to add with the current tangs.
2 clown fish
1 coral beauty
1 yellow tang 3-4”
1 hippo tang 3-4”
1 Naso Tang 3-4”
We would like to purchase additional tangs and introduce all at the same time after we quarantine them. We are looking for advice as to which tangs you would recommend to add with the current tangs.
pdiehm
Valuable Member
I have 3 tangs. A Hippo (Captive Bred), Tomini and a Yellow. My Yellow is a big jerk, smaller than the hippo, and while not constantly going after the hippo, they do the tailswipe routine, and the yellow will go into the hippo's cave and antagonize him. The tomini rarely comes out, he's a very very shy fish, and has his rock.
For right now, I have them all in a 40 breeder temporarily while my 120 cycles, and the cramped space is no doubt causing some of the aggression issues.
I am nearing the cycle completion of my 120, and I'm going to add the Tomini tang into the tank first, let him get comfortable and established. 2 weeks later, add the midas Blenny (next shyest fish). 2 weeks later, add the hippo (a month after the tomini), 2 weeks later, add the clowns, and probably a month-6 weeks after that, add in the yellow, though I'm contemplating trading him for a smaller Yellow, or possibly adding a Powder Brown instead of the yellow...I'm just not sure if the Brown and the Hippo will jive (My hippo is a really chill dude, who just wants to eat, and cruise).
What to do about the yellow? is how I'm planning doing it good? or should I do them all at the same time (will have been 6-8 weeks with all new rockwork in the 120 (60x18x26)?
For right now, I have them all in a 40 breeder temporarily while my 120 cycles, and the cramped space is no doubt causing some of the aggression issues.
I am nearing the cycle completion of my 120, and I'm going to add the Tomini tang into the tank first, let him get comfortable and established. 2 weeks later, add the midas Blenny (next shyest fish). 2 weeks later, add the hippo (a month after the tomini), 2 weeks later, add the clowns, and probably a month-6 weeks after that, add in the yellow, though I'm contemplating trading him for a smaller Yellow, or possibly adding a Powder Brown instead of the yellow...I'm just not sure if the Brown and the Hippo will jive (My hippo is a really chill dude, who just wants to eat, and cruise).
What to do about the yellow? is how I'm planning doing it good? or should I do them all at the same time (will have been 6-8 weeks with all new rockwork in the 120 (60x18x26)?
wom001
Community Member
Stocking a 260. Tangs are going in last. Plans originally was 1 Gold Rim, 1 White Tail, 1 (Desjardini / Purple / Hyrbis or muti scopas) After reading the rest of the post I wanted some opinions on 1 Goldrim, 1 White Tailed BT, 1 Desjardini, 1(Purple or Hybrid/muti.) or both in case i need 3 to spread angst. I have also been debating on a sohal but iv only met bully ones and never seem them kept in multi tang systems without aggression issues
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