Tang Aggression - Understanding and Combating

[Zero_Cool]

Yeah- The sailfin is your problem child and it will likely even with isolation never stop.

So best to rehome?

What about adding a bigger tang (Chocolate or PBT)? Or is this just pushing the agression level up?

 

[Zero_Cool]

I disagree, If you’re not seeing overt aggression I’d be shocked if the sailfin is related to the stress you’re seeing. I’m guessing it’s parasite derived. Any white spots, “dusting”, scratching, heavy breathing?

Do you quarantine all fish (including those already in the tank were they quarantined?)

Zebrasoma tangs rarely hold long grudges. I don’t think I’ve ever been unsuccessful at keeping them together from memory. If so, probably 1/200 times. Usually the first day or two is it. Occasional disagreements break out between my 4 zebrasoma tangs in my 180 but at worst it’s a torn fin and months of peace. Pecking order dispute almost certainly.

Zebrasoma tangs can also live with ich and some other parasites somewhat frequently but when you add new hosts (and likely new parasites if not QT) - it gives the parasite the ability to reproduce and thus attack more aggressively. New additions with their higher stress are more susceptible but as parasite numbers grow they can finally get at the strong native fish with an assumed resistance.

Thank you. I am a bit ashamed to admit that I am dealing with ich on the PT and treating the tank as such. Signs are improving though.

I still see all the tangs eating during the multiple feeds and the PT/Gem adapting to the pellets more and more so I take that as a good sign.

 

[Troylee]

Fish are weird and I cannot figure them out. I recently added a Purple and a Gem to my 230g with a 2-month resident Sailfin. All fish are generally the same size with the Gem being the smallest. Used an acclimation box for 3 days and nobody paid any attention to the fish in the box. Released the new fish along with a bunch of food and it went "ok".

Sailfin naturally exerted dominance over the new additions. No tail strikes or anything but a lot of rushing, flairing, chasing, backing up into and generally aggressive posturing. But by day 3 the 3 fish were swimming together and eating off the same nori clip (I have 3 separated around the tank), however, the Sailfin still bullies the other 2 especially around feedings.

I now see the PT hiding in corners and the Gem showing her stress coloration often.

I have thought about trying to catch the sailfin and put her in the acclimation box as a "timeout" for the other fish. Is this a good idea (if even possible) or is there a better/other option?

Idk that the sailfin will ever chill out! Mine is my problem child of the 7 tangs I have.. I’m going to add an Achilles soon and if it bullies him he will have to go.. the rest of my tangs are cool and get along besides the blue eye Kole every once in awhile will throw a fit but he gets checked then chills out haha…

 

[4FordFamily]

So best to rehome?

What about adding a bigger tang (Chocolate or PBT)? Or is this just pushing the agression level up?

If you’re not seeing a lot of overt aggression, no I wouldn’t. Zebrasoma don’t usually hold long grudges. If they’re own of very few tangs in a large tank all tangs can get nastier/more ornery.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Thank you all. I will stay the course for now and get the ich under control. Really hope it works out as the fish are beautiful but their health and happiness is more important than my wishes to keep them.

 

[vetteguy53081]

So best to rehome?

What about adding a bigger tang (Chocolate or PBT)? Or is this just pushing the agression level up?

You may have to consider doing so. I as you know have 24 tangs and Desjardini (sailfin) is now Second head jerk with My dussomieri now being the worse. My Purple was at one time and is now super mellow. PBT can be as bad if not worse in behavior than sailfin and get large and quickly. Mine went from 4 to 8" in 5 months. My Chocolate also model citizen and does not get as large

 

[Zero_Cool]

I had a plan for 5 tangs:
Two-spot bristletooth
Gem
Chocolate
Sailfin
PBT

Started with a Sailfin, juvi Chocolate and a Yellow-eyed Kole as opportunity purchases. Kole was a jerk and had to be rehomed, Chocolate passed due to bloat issues leaving the sailfin. This brings us up to date with the addition of the PT and Gem (another opportunity purchase).

I still very much want to add a Chocolate as I find them amazingly beautiful. The PBT was my wife's choice but has recently relented on this option (until she sets up her FOWLR aggressive tank).

I believe I will be taking a moment to let things settle and reassess in a bit.

The advice I get here is incredibly valuable and I try to follow it but also suffer from my own lack of impulse control as well as my wife's :)

 

[0MNSH1ZLLC]

I wouldn't even try to add another tang with my big fatty Sohal.

First fish I added after the Sohal was a Pink Tail trigger which it almost terrorized to death in a matter of hours. I took it out put it in quarantine for a day and did some research.

Any Success Shark Caging a Pink Tail Trigger? (Aggressive Tank Mates)

I added this Pink Tail along with a 6" Bird Wrasse and 3x 3" Squirrelfish. Pink Tail is about 4" but is getting a serious beat down from the crew, no other aggression otherwise. Has anyone had success with this technique?

www.reef2reef.com

Put it back in in a breeder box with lights off for 2 days, it's as if the Pink Tail doesn't exist.

I've added a large Bird Wrasse and 3 Soldier Fish since with no issues, keeping the lights out for 2 days.

I'm not sure if this is from the Sohal or any of the other predators but again the Sohal doesn't ever go after the Bird.

What took a bite outta my Bird Wrasse...

Can't tell if it is multiple little nibbles or what but it doesn't seem stressed and is eating well. Based on the video I'm guessing the Dragon Wrasse but this is some serious damage for a fish that is 1/3rd of its size to doll out. A couple shots from a Moray? Swipes from the Sohal? Gunna...

www.reef2reef.com

I really would like to add an Achilles tang but I'm not sure I want to risk it.

 

[TrottingReef]

I have read through this thread a few times. Lots of great info. I have a 210g 72"x24"x29". I have all of the following fish currently housed in all my other tanks and moving them to the 210 now that its ready. I am planning a 2wk QT on all the fish before they move to the 210 (been working on getting it ready for a year). I have had most of the fish in the list for over a year.

Lavender Tang
Purple Tang
Naso Tang
Powder Blue Tang
Blue Hippo tang
Pair of Blue Jaw/throat Trigger
Lunar Wrasse
Foxface
Pair of Black Osc Clowns
6 green Chromis
2 molies
6 line wrasse
Engineer goby

My Purple and Naso are together currently. The other Tangs are all housed signally in my different tanks. I have had the Naso, Purple and Lavender Tang for over a year. The PBT for about 6 months but I just got the Hippo and is very young 2" or so.

I am planning to release the mollies, engineer goby, chromis, clowns and 6 line first. Followed by the Foxface and Lunar Wrasse, then Triggers and last the tangs. I was going to introduce the tangs all at once, but I was wondering with the hippo being so much smaller than the rest of the tangs, should I release the hippo earlier?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have read through this thread a few times. Lots of great info. I have a 210g 72"x24"x29". I have all of the following fish currently housed in all my other tanks and moving them to the 210 now that its ready. I am planning a 2wk QT on all the fish before they move to the 210 (been working on getting it ready for a year).

Lavender Tang
Purple Tang
Naso Tang
Powder Blue Tang
Blue Hippo tang
Pair of Blue Jaw/throat Trigger
Lunar Wrasse
Foxface
Pair of Black Osc Clowns
6 green Chromis
2 molies
6 line wrasse
Engineer goby

My Purple and Naso are together currently. The other Tangs are all housed signally in my different tanks. I have had the Naso, Purple and Lavender Tang for over a year. The PBT for about 6 months but I just got the Hippo and is very young 2" or so.

I am planning to release the mollies, engineer goby, chromis, clowns and 6 line first. Followed by the Foxface and Lunar Wrasse, then Triggers and last the tangs. I was going to introduce the tangs all at once, but I was wondering with the hippo being so much smaller than the rest of the tangs, should I release the hippo earlier?

Your other post was just answered

 

[TrottingReef]

Your other post was just answered

LOL, I got the notice just as I posted this here lol. Headed to that post now.

 

[TrottingReef]

Update.

So far I have the following in my 210
Lavender Tang
Purple Tang
Naso Tang
Powder Blue Tang
Pair of Blue Jaw/throat Trigger
Pair of Black Osc Clowns
12 green Chromis
2 molies
6 line wrasse
Engineer goby
3 Lyre tail Athinas
Lawnmower Blenny
Racoon Butterfly

The release of the tangs together went pretty well. I did end up releasing the Naso tang into the tank first by a week. Let him get established then released the rest of the tangs. He stood up for himself well and kept the cave that he claimed. The Purple, Lavender and PBT were having frequent stand offs, but they avoided whipping out the blades for the most part. They all settled down pretty well. The Naso is most chill. Purple ended up losing the match up for domenice to the lavender and PBT. The lavender and PBT are about equal right now, but that will change I am sure as the PBT grows up. Currently the PBT is less than half the size of the lavender.

I just released the pair of Blue Jaw Triggers two days ago. I had planned to add them before the tangs but they got delayed in getting to me by Dr Reefs by over a month and I did not want to continue to hold up the tangs in 20G observation tanks. So they were in the tank for about 4 weeks before the Triggers arrived. I kept the triggers for 2 more weeks in observation and then added them in an acclimation box for a week. The tangs all ignored the triggers. Then I released them two days ago and the PBT tang was having none of them. Any time the PBT saw one of them she was shooting after it and immediately spinning around to try to slice the triggers. I ended up keeping the lights off and curtains shut tight for two days. Turned lights on this morning and PBT was right back at it. As soon as she saw one of them she was after them. I turned the lights back off and ran to Walmart and grabbed a few hand mirrors. I placed one dead center and front of the tank and the second on the right side panel of tank. the triggers were hiding in caves in that section so I wanted to see if I could keep the PBT and lavender from messing with the triggers. It has worked amazingly. The lavender and PBT spend all of their time in front of the mirror in the center of the tank. The triggers have started to come out and are swimming around the tank now and not getting bothered by the tangs. The athinas and chromis spend a lot of time in front of the second mirror. Funny to watch the athinas throw up their spikes at the mirror.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Update.

So far I have the following in my 210
Lavender Tang
Purple Tang
Naso Tang
Powder Blue Tang
Pair of Blue Jaw/throat Trigger
Pair of Black Osc Clowns
12 green Chromis
2 molies
6 line wrasse
Engineer goby
3 Lyre tail Athinas
Lawnmower Blenny
Racoon Butterfly

The release of the tangs together went pretty well. I did end up releasing the Naso tang into the tank first by a week. Let him get established then released the rest of the tangs. He stood up for himself well and kept the cave that he claimed. The Purple, Lavender and PBT were having frequent stand offs, but they avoided whipping out the blades for the most part. They all settled down pretty well. The Naso is most chill. Purple ended up losing the match up for domenice to the lavender and PBT. The lavender and PBT are about equal right now, but that will change I am sure as the PBT grows up. Currently the PBT is less than half the size of the lavender.

I just released the pair of Blue Jaw Triggers two days ago. I had planned to add them before the tangs but they got delayed in getting to me by Dr Reefs by over a month and I did not want to continue to hold up the tangs in 20G observation tanks. So they were in the tank for about 4 weeks before the Triggers arrived. I kept the triggers for 2 more weeks in observation and then added them in an acclimation box for a week. The tangs all ignored the triggers. Then I released them two days ago and the PBT tang was having none of them. Any time the PBT saw one of them she was shooting after it and immediately spinning around to try to slice the triggers. I ended up keeping the lights off and curtains shut tight for two days. Turned lights on this morning and PBT was right back at it. As soon as she saw one of them she was after them. I turned the lights back off and ran to Walmart and grabbed a few hand mirrors. I placed one dead center and front of the tank and the second on the right side panel of tank. the triggers were hiding in caves in that section so I wanted to see if I could keep the PBT and lavender from messing with the triggers. It has worked amazingly. The lavender and PBT spend all of their time in front of the mirror in the center of the tank. The triggers have started to come out and are swimming around the tank now and not getting bothered by the tangs. The athinas and chromis spend a lot of time in front of the second mirror. Funny to watch the athinas throw up their spikes at the mirror.

Typical powder blue but seems all normal and will pan out except with powdered jerk, I mean blue

 

[4FordFamily]

Update.

So far I have the following in my 210
Lavender Tang
Purple Tang
Naso Tang
Powder Blue Tang
Pair of Blue Jaw/throat Trigger
Pair of Black Osc Clowns
12 green Chromis
2 molies
6 line wrasse
Engineer goby
3 Lyre tail Athinas
Lawnmower Blenny
Racoon Butterfly

The release of the tangs together went pretty well. I did end up releasing the Naso tang into the tank first by a week. Let him get established then released the rest of the tangs. He stood up for himself well and kept the cave that he claimed. The Purple, Lavender and PBT were having frequent stand offs, but they avoided whipping out the blades for the most part. They all settled down pretty well. The Naso is most chill. Purple ended up losing the match up for domenice to the lavender and PBT. The lavender and PBT are about equal right now, but that will change I am sure as the PBT grows up. Currently the PBT is less than half the size of the lavender.

I just released the pair of Blue Jaw Triggers two days ago. I had planned to add them before the tangs but they got delayed in getting to me by Dr Reefs by over a month and I did not want to continue to hold up the tangs in 20G observation tanks. So they were in the tank for about 4 weeks before the Triggers arrived. I kept the triggers for 2 more weeks in observation and then added them in an acclimation box for a week. The tangs all ignored the triggers. Then I released them two days ago and the PBT tang was having none of them. Any time the PBT saw one of them she was shooting after it and immediately spinning around to try to slice the triggers. I ended up keeping the lights off and curtains shut tight for two days. Turned lights on this morning and PBT was right back at it. As soon as she saw one of them she was after them. I turned the lights back off and ran to Walmart and grabbed a few hand mirrors. I placed one dead center and front of the tank and the second on the right side panel of tank. the triggers were hiding in caves in that section so I wanted to see if I could keep the PBT and lavender from messing with the triggers. It has worked amazingly. The lavender and PBT spend all of their time in front of the mirror in the center of the tank. The triggers have started to come out and are swimming around the tank now and not getting bothered by the tangs. The athinas and chromis spend a lot of time in front of the second mirror. Funny to watch the athinas throw up their spikes at the mirror.

I am so glad it worked out! Be sure to post pics! :)

 

[4FordFamily]

I have read through this thread a few times. Lots of great info. I have a 210g 72"x24"x29". I have all of the following fish currently housed in all my other tanks and moving them to the 210 now that its ready. I am planning a 2wk QT on all the fish before they move to the 210 (been working on getting it ready for a year). I have had most of the fish in the list for over a year.

Lavender Tang
Purple Tang
Naso Tang
Powder Blue Tang
Blue Hippo tang
Pair of Blue Jaw/throat Trigger
Lunar Wrasse
Foxface
Pair of Black Osc Clowns
6 green Chromis
2 molies
6 line wrasse
Engineer goby

My Purple and Naso are together currently. The other Tangs are all housed signally in my different tanks. I have had the Naso, Purple and Lavender Tang for over a year. The PBT for about 6 months but I just got the Hippo and is very young 2" or so.

I am planning to release the mollies, engineer goby, chromis, clowns and 6 line first. Followed by the Foxface and Lunar Wrasse, then Triggers and last the tangs. I was going to introduce the tangs all at once, but I was wondering with the hippo being so much smaller than the rest of the tangs, should I release the hippo earlier?

Sorry for the delay in response, I didn’t get the notification. How did things work out?

 

[TrottingReef]

My update was like 4 posts above or so. Going well.

 

[ReefED!]

Any thoughts on adding a biota Yellow tang to my tank that has a mid size kole tang?

Right now everyone is chill with eachother. Clowns, tang, copperband, wrasse - everyone gets along.

It's a 120g display

 

[vetteguy53081]

Any thoughts on adding a biota Yellow tang to my tank that has a mid size kole tang?

Right now everyone is chill with eachother. Clowns, tang, copperband, wrasse - everyone gets along.

It's a 120g display

Koles can be jerks and may be a risk

 

[salty joe]

I want to add a single young tang as well as rabbitfish. If they like hair algae, they won't go hungry. I don't have any algae eaters and it shows. :face-with-monocle:

My main concern is for my mature pair of blue ring angels. How likely is it that once mature, a tang would knife my angels?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I want to add a single young tang as well as rabbitfish. If they like hair algae, they won't go hungry. I don't have any algae eaters and it shows. :face-with-monocle:

My main concern is for my mature pair of blue ring angels. How likely is it that once mature, a tang would knife my angels?

Hair algae consumption with these fish is hit and miss