Tang Aggression - Understanding and Combating

[jaxteller007]

@4FordFamily I've started to come around on the possibility of adding a blue hippo. I've always been resistant to them because quite frankly, every one I've encountered has been dumb as a box of rocks. But I've come around on them and they can be quite good looking fish. I've given up on adding a PBT unless I eventually go big (like 10 ft long tank lol) and from a purely aesthetic point of view I think a blue hippo would go great with the current lineup. I'm hesitant about adding another tang just because whatever is making our tank work now, is working and I'd hate to jack it up. We have two yellow tangs that don't really bother each other, a tomini who just does his own thing, the Lt tang who is kind of the boss of the tank for now and the vlaminigi whose starting to realize he's big enough to not let the Lt boss him around all the time.
We have some chasing now and then like you'd expect but nothing that's ever concerned me or made me thing we have to pull a fish out immediately. What do you think about adding a blue hippo? Would you look for one somewhat larger since we do have the two bigger guys in the tank already. I have to admit it's fun watching how fast these guys grow from the little things we get but priority one is the fish's well being.
We have 2 large man made caves (the vlaminigi likes to use these), 1 smaller one that the tomini uses and then I've always made sure to make the rock work have as many caves and hiding places as possible. I'm going to start making my own caves with new rock outside of the tank and slowly swap out some of the bigger pieces of rock in the tank. I like having multiple "portable" hiding places so I can re-arrange things easily if needed.

Thanks for all the advice you've given too. It's definitely helped us have the lineup we have successfully.

@4FordFamily did you see this? I know you're probably busy with actual work these days lol.

 

[4FordFamily]

@4FordFamily I've started to come around on the possibility of adding a blue hippo. I've always been resistant to them because quite frankly, every one I've encountered has been dumb as a box of rocks. But I've come around on them and they can be quite good looking fish. I've given up on adding a PBT unless I eventually go big (like 10 ft long tank lol) and from a purely aesthetic point of view I think a blue hippo would go great with the current lineup. I'm hesitant about adding another tang just because whatever is making our tank work now, is working and I'd hate to jack it up. We have two yellow tangs that don't really bother each other, a tomini who just does his own thing, the Lt tang who is kind of the boss of the tank for now and the vlaminigi whose starting to realize he's big enough to not let the Lt boss him around all the time.
We have some chasing now and then like you'd expect but nothing that's ever concerned me or made me thing we have to pull a fish out immediately. What do you think about adding a blue hippo? Would you look for one somewhat larger since we do have the two bigger guys in the tank already. I have to admit it's fun watching how fast these guys grow from the little things we get but priority one is the fish's well being.
We have 2 large man made caves (the vlaminigi likes to use these), 1 smaller one that the tomini uses and then I've always made sure to make the rock work have as many caves and hiding places as possible. I'm going to start making my own caves with new rock outside of the tank and slowly swap out some of the bigger pieces of rock in the tank. I like having multiple "portable" hiding places so I can re-arrange things easily if needed.

Thanks for all the advice you've given too. It's definitely helped us have the lineup we have successfully.

Sorry for delay, I didn't get the notification. Yes, it would be risky though. Hippo seem to fly under the radar of some aggressive tangs, but adding a single tang to many, is, well, very risky. Not a best-case scenario. I'd suggest an acclimation box first.

Also, do any of y'alls tangs "dig" holes under rocks for hiding spots? Our Lt tang has cleared the sand out underneath one of our rock formations all the way to the egg crate to make his home. And he will "clean" it if empty shells or too much sand gets back in there for his liking. He shakes his tail super fast and sends it all flying out. It's hilarious to watch. He's like our own little OCD fish.

I have not seen tangs do this often, that sounds like a real goof ball fish! :)

An update on the Yellow Tang that I received from an online vendor. He came Fedex Priority overnight with a water logged box when the package arrived. Needless to say, there was a hole in the bag and nearly NO water left, I was SHOCKED he was still alive. My guess is rough FedEx handling caused him to poke a hole in the bag with his sharp spines.

I had no choice but to throw him in the QT immediately, which luckily was almost perfectly matching SG with respect to the small amount of water I could test from his bag. Things were dicey for the first hour or so as he stayed on the bottom of the tank upside down but breathing and moving. He is doing much better now and moving around the tank well.

However, he has not eaten yet. The vendor suggested shredding the seaweed into particulate form for him to eat from the water column. Has anyone ever heard of this method? Up to this point he has refused to eat Ocean Nutrition Green Marine Algae with garlic, a variety of pellets and frozen Mysis.

Right now the QT is only dosed with Cu up to 1.0ppm and Metro.

How long before I need to go into emergency mode for this guy to eat?

There isn't much you can do, but live brine is my go to for tangs that won't eat. If he arrived as rough as it looks (upside down), it isn't surprising that the fish isn't feeling well enough to eat. Ensure there's no ammonia in the tank, and I agree, given that he's got some meat on his bones so to speak, you have some time. There really isn't an emergency protocol though, you cannot force them to eat -- not without doing more harm than good. But try live brine... a small amount initially. That seems to trigger feeding response, in addition to rubber banding nori on a rock (to mimic natural feeding on algae off of rocks in the wild).

 

[jaxteller007]

Sorry for delay, I didn't get the notification. Yes, it would be risky though. Hippo seem to fly under the radar of some aggressive tangs, but adding a single tang to many, is, well, very risky. Not a best-case scenario. I'd suggest an acclimation box first.


I have not seen tangs do this often, that sounds like a real goof ball fish! :)

I'll keep that in mind about a hippo. We do have an acclimation box to use.
It will be hard to catch him doing it but here's what he's done to make his hole.

 

[jaxteller007]

For reference, that sand was basically flat from front of the tank to back before he did this. And now, under that rock, its bare to the eggcrate lol

 

[4FordFamily]

For reference, that sand was basically flat from front of the tank to back before he did this. And now, under that rock, its bare to the eggcrate lol

That's funny, what a silly fish

 

[jaxteller007]

That's funny, what a silly fish

He's interesting that's for sure. He will also chase every fish in the tank out of that hole (even the little fish) except the betta. It's the only one he will share it with lol.

 

[blackstallion]

There isn't much you can do, but live brine is my go to for tangs that won't eat. If he arrived as rough as it looks (upside down), it isn't surprising that the fish isn't feeling well enough to eat. Ensure there's no ammonia in the tank, and I agree, given that he's got some meat on his bones so to speak, you have some time. There really isn't an emergency protocol though, you cannot force them to eat -- not without doing more harm than good. But try live brine... a small amount initially. That seems to trigger feeding response, in addition to rubber banding nori on a rock (to mimic natural feeding on algae off of rocks in the wild).

I had started him off with 1.00ppm Copper and have been bringing it up to therapeutic levels since Sunday; I also started dosing Metro into the water column. Will these two separately or in conjunction hurt his feeding response? Should I stop dosing Metro and stop and/or back off the Copper with a WC?

 

[4FordFamily]

I had started him off with 1.00ppm Copper and have been bringing it up to therapeutic levels since Sunday; I also started dosing Metro into the water column. Will these two separately or in conjunction hurt his feeding response? Should I stop dosing Metro and stop and/or back off the Copper with a WC?

I don't find that most zebrasoma are too sensitive to either one. COULD it be a factor? yes. I'd stay the course, personally.

 

[blackstallion]

There isn't much you can do, but live brine is my go to for tangs that won't eat. If he arrived as rough as it looks (upside down), it isn't surprising that the fish isn't feeling well enough to eat. Ensure there's no ammonia in the tank, and I agree, given that he's got some meat on his bones so to speak, you have some time. There really isn't an emergency protocol though, you cannot force them to eat -- not without doing more harm than good. But try live brine... a small amount initially. That seems to trigger feeding response, in addition to rubber banding nori on a rock (to mimic natural feeding on algae off of rocks in the wild).

Where can I get live brine shrimp?

 

[4FordFamily]

Where can I get live brine shrimp?

Many pet stores sell it, I think you can order online but you'll pay a good bit for shipping.

 

[blackstallion]

Many pet stores sell it, I think you can order online but you'll pay a good bit for shipping.

So my Yellow Tang, after 7 days is FINALLY starting to at least show interest in food. Mostly, he's trying the frozen mysis and the algae soaked in garlic and shredded to small pieces.

However, after he eats some bites, I notice he seems to be spitting out everything (or possibly most) of what he's ingested. He's done that now twice. Has anyone had this experience? Is this normal until he gets used to eating again since it's been a while? His stomach is now indented since he hasn't eaten, so I wonder if his system just can't handle it?

I'm wondering if it can also potentially be something with worms/parasites internally? He's in Copper now so I haven't treated for internal worms/parasites/etc.

 

[4FordFamily]

So my Yellow Tang, after 7 days is FINALLY starting to at least show interest in food. Mostly, he's trying the frozen mysis and the algae soaked in garlic and shredded to small pieces.

However, after he eats some bites, I notice he seems to be spitting out everything (or possibly most) of what he's ingested. He's done that now twice. Has anyone had this experience? Is this normal until he gets used to eating again since it's been a while? His stomach is now indented since he hasn't eaten, so I wonder if his system just can't handle it?

I'm wondering if it can also potentially be something with worms/parasites internally? He's in Copper now so I haven't treated for internal worms/parasites/etc.

Fish and tangs often exhibit this behavior they test it out and “crunch” it a bit or break it up by doing this and then eat it again. Interest is good, hopefully feeding interest increases. That’s why I like live brine - it’s so small and moves and the fish can ingest while interested immediately.

Try spiralina brine if you still haven’t found live brine. It is smaller.

 

[blackstallion]

Fish and tangs often exhibit this behavior they test it out and “crunch” it a bit or break it up by doing this and then eat it again. Interest is good, hopefully feeding interest increases. That’s why I like live brine - it’s so small and moves and the fish can ingest while interested immediately.

Try spiralina brine if you still haven’t found live brine. It is smaller.

The Yellow Tang is now eating frozen Mysis and I believe he will make it through QT. I anticipate he will be ready for the DT beginning of November.

However, my original plan of adding 3 Zebrasomas at once ie. Sailfin, Purple and Yellow is now unachievable as the Sailfin and Purple got Velvet while in QT and unfortunately did not make it.

I am still considering purchasing a Purple and possibly another Zebrasoma ie. Sailfin, BUT, how would their introduction into the DT go after the Yellow has been there for potentially several months?

The Yellow is large 5". Since Purples are more aggressive than Yellows, would a smaller ie. 4" Purple be better with the large Yellow?

And likewise, I assume the Sailfin, since he's typically less aggressive than the Yellow or Purple, would be better to go larger with him?

OR another option would be to go with a Hippo Tang BEFORE adding in any additional Zebrasomas. Would this help with the eventual addition of Zebrasomas?

 

[GillMeister]

Hoooweeee. Just dropped a yellow tang in with my PBT and it was carnage. The PBT is going on timeout in the QT for a few days. I'll see if he behaves after that.

 

[4FordFamily]

The Yellow Tang is now eating frozen Mysis and I believe he will make it through QT. I anticipate he will be ready for the DT beginning of November.

However, my original plan of adding 3 Zebrasomas at once ie. Sailfin, Purple and Yellow is now unachievable as the Sailfin and Purple got Velvet while in QT and unfortunately did not make it.

I am still considering purchasing a Purple and possibly another Zebrasoma ie. Sailfin, BUT, how would their introduction into the DT go after the Yellow has been there for potentially several months?

The Yellow is large 5". Since Purples are more aggressive than Yellows, would a smaller ie. 4" Purple be better with the large Yellow?

And likewise, I assume the Sailfin, since he's typically less aggressive than the Yellow or Purple, would be better to go larger with him?

OR another option would be to go with a Hippo Tang BEFORE adding in any additional Zebrasomas. Would this help with the eventual addition of Zebrasomas?

If adding multiples, it would probably be fine.

 

[gearhead]

Hi, I have a red sea 750 xxl it has two anthias 1 wrasse 1 pbt 1 purple tang 3 green Chromis and two cardinals. I have a 120 gallon that has a long nose black tang and a bar code tang together they are about 5-6 inches and the bar code is the boss. I am having nightmares about moving those two fish over to the 750xxl. Should I just put them right in or hang on box? The purple tang is the boss in the 750 but the pbt will stand its ground and chase fish around a little. My feeling is the purple and the bar code are going to have it out due to their nature. Any suggestions, please?

 

[4FordFamily]

Hi, I have a red sea 750 xxl it has two anthias 1 wrasse 1 pbt 1 purple tang 3 green Chromis and two cardinals. I have a 120 gallon that has a long nose black tang and a bar code tang together they are about 5-6 inches and the bar code is the boss. I am having nightmares about moving those two fish over to the 750xxl. Should I just put them right in or hang on box? The purple tang is the boss in the 750 but the pbt will stand its ground and chase fish around a little. My feeling is the purple and the bar code are going to have it out due to their nature. Any suggestions, please?

The gem tang (bar code variant) tang will be in new territory. With 2 tangs added concurrently, the odds of this not being too problematic are higher. Yes, they're both zebrasoma tangs, but in my experience zebrasoma tangs don't aggressively pursue new additions nearly as long as some of the acanthurus tangs like PBT. I'd be more worried about that, but still not too concerned. Of course, they're individual animals so their personalities differ, and so many factors at play that success is never guaranteed. However, I'd not fret too much with this, I think you'll be fine.

 

[jaxteller007]

@4FordFamily if you had a chance to add a healthy, QTd blue throat trigger and/or blue hippo tang to our current line up would you do one, both, neither? I should say I'd be getting the fish in return for trading some physical labor to the guy that currently orders all our livestock for us.
I don’t have any experience with triggers so I don't know how they'd get along with our current lineup.

 

[gearhead]

The gem tang (bar code variant) tang will be in new territory. With 2 tangs added concurrently, the odds of this not being too problematic are higher. Yes, they're both zebrasoma tangs, but in my experience zebrasoma tangs don't aggressively pursue new additions nearly as long as some of the acanthurus tangs like PBT. I'd be more worried about that, but still not too concerned. Of course, they're individual animals so their personalities differ, and so many factors at play that success is never guaranteed. However, I'd not fret too much with this, I think you'll be fine.

Thankyou the good thing is that the PBT is small only 3 inches or so and the purple is boss in the 750. Also, would you just put them right in the tank without a timeout box? both tanks are on the same automated water change vats in the basement and parameters are the same so no worry there.

 

[jkentfite]

I am setting up an 8ft (approx 475 gal) tank. I’m looking to build my tang gang. I want a blue hippo, black longnose, purple, +/- desjardini and aberrant koi scopas. I would also like an Achilles and/or powder blue.

My local guy thinks adding the hippo, scopas zebraoma first, then adding acanthurus later is best approach. I know there are varying ideas. Some say add all at same time. Looking for any advice. Thanks in advance.