Tang breathing fast, 2 other fish disappeared

Bradley Keck · Sep 26, 2018

I'm SO sorry for your losses. This has to be very frustrating given the sound quarantine procedures you follow. The only thing I noticed in the info you provided, was the tank is about 4 months old? That is still a very new tank with a significant bioload. You added the anemone about a week before you left, gone for a week and then return to your fish not doing well. Is there any chance you had an ammonia spike? I know your tank showed 0 ammonia after you got back, but it may have spiked while you were gone? Some of the symptoms you describe sounds like ammonia toxicity. Your tank is new enough for this to be a possibility with your bioload.

Averhoeven · Sep 28, 2018

Bradley Keck said:
I'm SO sorry for your losses. This has to be very frustrating given the sound quarantine procedures you follow. The only thing I noticed in the info you provided, was the tank is about 4 months old? That is still a very new tank with a significant bioload. You added the anemone about a week before you left, gone for a week and then return to your fish not doing well. Is there any chance you had an ammonia spike? I know your tank showed 0 ammonia after you got back, but it may have spiked while you were gone? Some of the symptoms you describe sounds like ammonia toxicity. Your tank is new enough for this to be a possibility with your bioload.

I guess it's possible and I would definitely prefer that to be the answer since it means that my quarantine measures weren't for naught and circumvented through some unknown. It would also mean I don't have to go fallow.

That said.... I'm not sure. Unfortunately, I left my Seneye's slide lapse the day before we left because... well, I felt it had been stable for over a month and never shown a spike so didn't want to "waste" the slide. That said, now it definitely would have been nice to have that trend. Though I want it to be the case, I also have a hard time thinking that would be it. This bioload had been in there for over a month with nothing really even detectable from an ammonia perspective by the Seneye over that whole month with regular feedings. The only change in the bioload was the nem and I can't imagine that would do it. However, I'd never fed pellets before. I recognize they are denser food sources and can foul up water faster/easier than the frozen I typically feed, so maybe? I did have the aforementioned algae bloom when I got home. With that in mind though, the ammonia has been 0 (and the downstream metabolites have also remained 0 or, in the case of nitrate, very low) since I got back and has not even spiked given the presence of what has to be at least a few corpses which continue to decompose since I don't even know where to begin looking in the rockwork and most of it is glued together for stability. That makes me suspect the bacteria colonies are pretty robust, though perhaps even a couple fish isn't the same as a week's worth of excessive pellets? Or perhaps the colonies spiked enough with the sudden influx of food that they are now robust enough to handle that degree of decomp? I dunno, it's just all so disheartening.

I wish I had a way of knowing. I guess there's always the ability to setup a 10g tank with water from the DT and add a fish and see what happens. If it was ammonia, the fish should live, if it was velvet I would suspect it would succumb though obviously I would try to get copper in that tank ASAP. That seems cruel to me though. However, if it winds up being ammonia, it saves the clown and goby from new, long duration copper baths which obviously aren't their cup of tea either.

Ugh, I hate this. I hate killing things, I hate the tank essentially wiping so early, I hate not knowing/having an answer or clue.... as I said before, it really dampens my enthusiasm and that really sucks, because I was SO excited to finally have a tank again after over a decade.

Bradley Keck · Sep 28, 2018

I am new to saltwater. Never owned a saltwater fish until today. I kept African cichlids for years. When I first started, I had a pair of Demasoni breed. It was the coolest thing. I could see the female (we named her Mama) holding the eggs and watched as they hatched in her mouth. The father (named daddy demasoni) was the most colorful fish in the tank. I was able to take the fry out of her mouth and place them in a grow out tank. I was so excited. Then Daddy demasoni started acting weird. Well, you know where I'm going with this. We had a funeral and everything. I still to this day think him dying ruined my two daughters enthusiasm for the hobby. I was defeated, but kept going with it. I ended up with over 38 fish and had only lost 3 fish. I was proud of that fact. Then one day I heard water splashing from my DT. Ended up the tank I had purchased on craigslist had sprung a catastrophic leak. This tank had been up and running for over two years. I had 38 fish and nowhere to put them. Luckily my LFS, who I had sold some of the fry to, were willing to take all of them. I came back to a cabinet that was nearly ruined - I had spent 3 months making that cabinet. I was ready to call it quits with keeping aquariums. Totally frustrated and defeated. What could I have done to cause that tank to fail? Well, long story short, I decided to dive into saltwater. Now, here I am two years after tearing that tank down. Stand has been refinished, tank has been cycling for 8 weeks, and my first two fish on the way this morning. I think what has kept me in the hobby, despite some very frustrating moments, is my love for fish. You obviously share that love or you would not be upset. Please realize you did not kill your fish. You did more than most to ensure they would thrive. Things just sometimes happen that are out of our control. I do not even have a quarantine. Just cannot make it happen. Don't have the time or resources to do it as well as you have. I woke up at 3:30 this morning and could not go back to sleep just knowing those fish are on the way today. Running everything through my head on how I'm going to acclimate them. Worried about their well-being. You care about you fish and this hobby has to have people like yourself who love the pets they keep. Take a deep breath, realize your procedures were good, and that sometimes things just happen.

Dom · Sep 28, 2018

cancun said:
Oh man! I am sorry! Did you add a new specimen right before vacation? Do you think your auto feeder malfunctioned and dumped extra food in there? To me the Tang doesn't really have any outward signs of disease that I can see from the pics!

That Tang seems a bit malnourished.

Averhoeven · Oct 15, 2018

Thought I would update things a bit and see people's thoughts. The clown and goby still are alive and healthy looking.
I have since been quarantining a small leopard wrasse using only water from the display tank for about 2 weeks (maybe a little longer) sorry of as a test. He has not had copper. He is happy, healthy and eating great. About a week ago I also added an anthia that had been in QT to the display as a control/reverse test. He is also doing great. I feel like that is a pretty good sign that it wasn't actually velvet. I even stacked the deck against me getting the wrasse from petco.
In other news, the algae bloom after all that really got out of hand, however it's finally getting better after a lot of suctioning, cleaning and water changes. I feel like that supports the rogue auto feeder theory with an ammonia spike.
Any thoughts with this new data? Given the 2 fish trials and my stringent QT, I'm beginning to learn towards the ammonia spike.

Bradley Keck · Oct 16, 2018

Averhoeven said:
Thought I would update things a bit and see people's thoughts. The clown and goby still are alive and healthy looking.
I have since been quarantining a small leopard wrasse using only water from the display tank for about 2 weeks (maybe a little longer) sorry of as a test. He has not had copper. He is happy, healthy and eating great. About a week ago I also added an anthia that had been in QT to the display as a control/reverse test. He is also doing great. I feel like that is a pretty good sign that it wasn't actually velvet. I even stacked the deck against me getting the wrasse from petco.
In other news, the algae bloom after all that really got out of hand, however it's finally getting better after a lot of suctioning, cleaning and water changes. I feel like that supports the rogue auto feeder theory with an ammonia spike.
Any thoughts with this new data? Given the 2 fish trials and my stringent QT, I'm beginning to learn towards the ammonia spike.

Sounds like you have systematically eliminated a lot of possibilities(including velvet) through your hard work. I think the idea of your feeder dropping too many pellets and causing a spike makes sense, especially with everything doing well at this point and no further sudden deaths or odd behavior. But, I would like to hear some other more experienced saltwater members chime in on this too. I'm glad to hear you stuck with it and did not give up on your system! Now that the algae is clearing up, it will be time to sit back and enjoy a little!