Tank crash...2.0

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

No it is a method as too much can make fish already ill eat less and be toxic. So you have to get them into a therapeutic level and then maintain it. Copper Power is non-cheleated is the term and better tolerated I have found than Cupramine and some of the other ones in the market. Fish now above 1.00 ppm and getting them up to 1.45 to 2.00 ppm is recommended. That should happen over next 48hrs...as I've dosed Copper Power about 5ml over 24 hrs to 36 hrs intervals while watching for further toxicity and resolution of some of the signs like cloudy eyes and fins and pale spots/sloughing on the fish bodies. YT looks a lot better and is swimming around tank at time although likes right side of tank which I suspect is because I have no large enough hiding places/cover like PVC in the tank for him. Need to figure that out so can decrease the intank stress more! At this point am happy he is alive...sole survivor at this point. Have lost a lot of great fish and as a YT this one is probably one of the hardest to replace if I had to given the current bans out of Hawaii.

Copper power is amine chelated. It is very mild, but also slow to work. You need to dose it accurately with the Hanna HR checker, but you need to get to a 2.25 ppm dose in 24 hours.
Ionic copper like plain copper solvate/citric acid and Cupramine are harsher and need to be raised more slowly, but always reach a full dose within 72 hours.

The reason to avoid a slow ramp up (besides that it isn’t needed) is that many protozoan diseases can kill fish before you ever reach a therapeutic dose.

I’m still unconvinced this is velvet - that usually causes 100% mortality within 5 days. I think this is flukes.

 

[mdrobc13]

Copper power is amine chelated. It is very mild, but also slow to work. You need to dose it accurately with the Hanna HR checker, but you need to get to a 2.25 ppm dose in 24 hours.
Ionic copper like plain copper solvate/citric acid and Cupramine are harsher and need to be raised more slowly, but always reach a full dose within 72 hours.

The reason to avoid a slow ramp up (besides that it isn’t needed) is that many protozoan diseases can kill fish before you ever reach a therapeutic dose.

I’m still unconvinced this is velvet - that usually causes 100% mortality within 5 days. I think this is flukes.

Ok thanks will check again today's dose on the Hanna checker. YT and maroon are okay I think and eating in QT now.

Remaining fish are slowly succumbing it seems with one heavily affected and three smaller fish I can't catch slowing down. All are avoiding fish trap and fresh mysis and pellets when offered still. So Jay please educate me more on flukes and why this is so deadly and more better what I can do or should do restarting my setup please...I'd really appreciate it and expert advise from everyone here.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Ok thanks will check again today's dose on the Hanna checker. YT and maroon are okay I think and eating in QT now.

Remaining fish are slowly succumbing it seems with one heavily affected and three smaller fish I can't catch slowing down. All are avoiding fish trap and fresh mysis and pellets when offered still. So Jay please educate me more on flukes and why this is so deadly and more better what I can do or should do restarting my setup please...I'd really appreciate it and expert advise from everyone here.

Are the fish (or most of them) still eating?
Are you seeing rapid breathing?
Are any of the fish scratching, twitching or flicking their fins?

Copper doesn’t work against flukes, only protozoans. Trouble is, you aren’t at an effective copper dose yet, so I can’t rule protozoans out 100% Fluke treatments don’t work on protozoans - so we really need to try to get the diagnosis right before moving forward…..

 

[mdrobc13]

Are the fish (or most of them) still eating?
Are you seeing rapid breathing?
Are any of the fish scratching, twitching or flicking their fins?

Copper doesn’t work against flukes, only protozoans. Trouble is, you aren’t at an effective copper dose yet, so I can’t rule protozoans out 100% Fluke treatments don’t work on protozoans - so we really need to try to get the diagnosis right before moving forward…..

None in DT seem to be eating. Breathing is rapid and becoming less mobile. Three Australian Stripee fish are now hanging out near one of my gyre pumps but when I try to catch them they run to the bottom into rocks but just got 2 of three and transferred them to DT...must be getting slower or I am improving with the large net..or chance! LOL. None are scratching that I can see. Some areas of fins look a little cloudy/clamped. Here is one of them (nox I thin) remaining that continues to deteriorate. Large errosion areas on skin and just sitting but breathing heavy...moves into rocks when try to grab him. Other died 3 days ago and initial one died like 2-3 mos ago but do NOT think it was this current infection of the trio originally obtained. As for treatments or changes to DT since this started...the only thing I did was to add a dose to DT of prasi-pro 20ml and macryoxyn 15 ml as was all I had initially to try to get the fish to survive till I could catch them and that was early in the week like last Sat.

Remaining two fish in QT are acting more normal and Cu level is at 1.76 this PM a few mins ago. Hanging out in a corner mostly but moving about when I check on them from time to time. QT is a 55 gal tank from PetSmart I had before and just restarted with fresh salt water and brand new HOB filter and my old sponge airline/filter that was already in the tank and old rock from storage (nothing from DT was transferred other than the fish).

 

[Ziggy17]

If you’re going to reset, why not remove the rocks to get the fish out? They can always get set back up with no I’ll affects the the biome.

 

[mdrobc13]

If you’re going to reset, why not remove the rocks to get the fish out? They can always get set back up with no I’ll affects the the biome.

Its a WHOLE lot of aquascape...about 100+ lbs of rock. But yes at this point with very few fish remaining I may just do that as i planned on paring down the amount of rock and aquascaping also as I restart things over the next 90 days.

 

[Dom]

I have never seen aggression like this !

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

None in DT seem to be eating. Breathing is rapid and becoming less mobile. Three Australian Stripee fish are now hanging out near one of my gyre pumps but when I try to catch them they run to the bottom into rocks but just got 2 of three and transferred them to DT...must be getting slower or I am improving with the large net..or chance! LOL. None are scratching that I can see. Some areas of fins look a little cloudy/clamped. Here is one of them (nox I thin) remaining that continues to deteriorate. Large errosion areas on skin and just sitting but breathing heavy...moves into rocks when try to grab him. Other died 3 days ago and initial one died like 2-3 mos ago but do NOT think it was this current infection of the trio originally obtained. As for treatments or changes to DT since this started...the only thing I did was to add a dose to DT of prasi-pro 20ml and macryoxyn 15 ml as was all I had initially to try to get the fish to survive till I could catch them and that was early in the week like last Sat.

Remaining two fish in QT are acting more normal and Cu level is at 1.76 this PM a few mins ago. Hanging out in a corner mostly but moving about when I check on them from time to time. QT is a 55 gal tank from PetSmart I had before and just restarted with fresh salt water and brand new HOB filter and my old sponge airline/filter that was already in the tank and old rock from storage (nothing from DT was transferred other than the fish).

OK, based on that, my recommendation would be to get them into 2.5 copper asap.

 

[mdrobc13]

Jay…Did so…all in DT so far have recovered. Last Cu reading was 1.8 prior to upping dose x2 10ml for 55 gal QT. Of note my last Stripie was caught he was immobile in DT and heavy breathing but didn’t make it too far gone in QT and removed this AM. He was flashing prior to me finding him in his current state in DT prior to removal..easy to catch when not really swimming. Small
Maroon clown who showed some involvement in fins and breathing is now nowhere to be found in his normal areas in the tank and suspect is succumbed to infection also as this seems to be the process.

But for some reason I now have not 1 but 3 wrasses still alive in the DT! Melanarus and Timor wrasse and red corris!! They seem to be hiding in the sand which may offer some protection?? Super hard to catch with 100lbs of sand and 80lbs of rock in my Red Sea 1000G2…as soon as I see them the disappear into rock and sand for hours till next appearance. Could the sand protect them? Also assume their presence prevents a true fallow period, correct till they are caught or gone/pass away from this disease. Also do I need to change out my Chaeto when I go fallow? Coral? Thoughts? Are wrasses super fish? Lol

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Jay…Did so…all in DT so far have recovered. Last Cu reading was 1.8 prior to upping dose x2 10ml for 55 gal QT. Of note my last Stripie was caught he was immobile in DT and heavy breathing but didn’t make it too far gone in QT and removed this AM. He was flashing prior to me finding him in his current state in DT prior to removal..easy to catch when not really swimming. Small
Maroon clown who showed some involvement in fins and breathing is now nowhere to be found in his normal areas in the tank and suspect is succumbed to infection also as this seems to be the process.

But for some reason I now have not 1 but 3 wrasses still alive in the DT! Melanarus and Timor wrasse and red corris!! They seem to be hiding in the sand which may offer some protection?? Super hard to catch with 100lbs of sand and 80lbs of rock in my Red Sea 1000G2…as soon as I see them the disappear into rock and sand for hours till next appearance. Could the sand protect them? Also assume their presence prevents a true fallow period, correct till they are caught or gone/pass away from this disease. Also do I need to change out my Chaeto when I go fallow? Coral? Thoughts? Are wrasses super fish? Lol

Without clear pictures of the fish swimming in the tank, I’m really at a disadvantage here.

Wrasse are not immune to protozoans, but some fluke species are fairly species-specific, so it is plausible that the wrasse are more resistant if it is flukes.

 

[mdrobc13]

Thanks all. Remaining fish are doing well in QT. Two wrasses are all that remain in DT..still trying to catch with rock work remaining..still trying. QT copper should be at 2.0 now after dose just added.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks all. Remaining fish are doing well in QT. Two wrasses are all that remain in DT..still trying to catch with rock work remaining..still trying. QT copper should be at 2.0 now after dose just added.

The water looks really murky, but tough to tell with the blue light.

You should have gotten the copper to 2.25 last week. It really doesn’t help much below 2. That does rule out velvet though, as more fish would have died during that time.

 

[mdrobc13]

The water looks really murky, but tough to tell with the blue light.

You should have gotten the copper to 2.25 last week. It really doesn’t help much below 2. That does rule out velvet though, as more fish would have died during that time.

Sorry some of that is blue Kessel
Light and dirty glass outside. Yes I did a water change which dripped my copper a bit but retested and now 2.18 now with Copper power. Yes they have recovered in QT and now swim and act appropriately. Yes strange last two fish in DT are alive and are wrasses with last fish dying lad week around Fri. Will still leave fallow and have removed about 50 lbs of rock to declutter. Waiting still for new Coravlue in sump UV sterilizer to arrive from back order and then will begin reset of tank and equipment and backup to prevent infections and of course QT all new arrives next. Rebuild begins in 2026!

 

[mdrobc13]

Tank is now fallow except 1-2 snails. Was weird in that the last two wrasses were hardy as hell and held up to the end. No way to catch them really no matter how much rock I removed. Eventually loss both (red corris + melanarius) when I bleached the tank over 1 weeks worth of time. Salinity now is lowered to 1.018-1.020 and now am going thru reset of the tank with SEED plus PRIME and Declorinator over the next 4-8 weeks.

Current fish remaining in QT are one large maroon clown and two Australian Strippies. Unfortunately my Med Biota Yellow tang died last week in QT. Remaining fish are doing fine. Copper is at 2.26 and Ammonia at 0.00. Ph 8.2 and Sp gv at 1.018. ALL new fish will go into QT and will introduce ones currently there sometime in the Spring. Talk about a spring cleaning. Thanks for the help from all of you guys.

 

[winxp_man]

I’m at 25 fish QT’ed in direct 2.30-2.40 ppm copper QT tank. Have not lost a single fish. The most recent is a hybrid I got with ich on him. In the QT with 2.40 ppm copper power. Ich started falling off. He is on the road to recovery. He was also not eating any longer.

QT everything and it’s mum! Including Algae from LFS. Got ich from using algae from a LFS because everyone that pulls some for me, have their hands and arms all over the fish tanks that I now see fish with all kind of diseases including uronema.

 

[mdrobc13]

The water looks really murky, but tough to tell with the blue light.

You should have gotten the copper to 2.25 last week. It really doesn’t help much below 2. That does rule out velvet though, as more fish would have died during that time.

Hey Jay...okay back and ready I think to restock. Tank has been fallow since 15 Jan 2026 when last two fish died. Due to size of tank 300+ gallons...bleach 1 cup was added and then rock removed and 1/2 sand also removed and cleaned out my sump (rubble cleaned), Skimmer cleaned w/bleach and replaced one of my DC pumps too (while I was there). Then another bleach dosing was run thru the system about 2 weeks later and 20% water changed and then fresh water added and has been run thru the system since then approx last week of Jan. Added Prime dosing and Chlorine remover (Brightwell Erase Cl) on a regular a basis to remove chlorine and ammonia and nitrate from water and also added approx 50 lbs of black hawaiian reef sand. Started to add coraline algae started and live bio media (Seed) and now getting Ph and Alk up with Brightwell 8.3 and Seachem 8.4 in Feb also. Tank is looking good. Also added Cora Vue In sump UV setup (largest size avail) and so I think tank DT is doing good and should be ready. Have started to add clean up crew and cleaner shrimp x2 went into the DT this week along with 2 sand sifting starfish and are cruising about with Nessarius snails and a tiger conch and red legg hermits. Have I missed anything I missed?

Oh yeah fish...I think what this was that got in the tank was Brookynella in my tank in Dec over the holidays via a PetCO flame angel my daughter got on a Black Friday sale after Thanksgiving. Since my QT system was down/empty I let her introduce it as it looked good. Results wiped out my whole tank by Xmas. That's the after action report when we put it all together. Lack of some maintence and feeding and mismatches in stocking didn't help as some parts of the system also were out of wack/stressed too. For example all of my cleaner shrimp were killed off by my Triggers and thus no one to help pick up ich that developed too. Anyway as I've now gone fallow and caught last 5 fish of which 3 made it thru QT since Jan I think am good to start adding fish now no? Last 3 fish (maroon clown and 2 Australian Stripies have been in QT since Jan at 2.0-2.3 ppm copper using Copper Safe and I've tested it weekly and dose to keep it there. Have added a Purple tang and Desjardi Sailfin and Gold Rim to QT earlier about around 4 March and a Hippo tang about 2 weeks before that and all are eating Nori and Brine and chilling out in DQ. Have a juve Naso, a Biota Yellow tang arriving tomorrow for QT also. DT is a 55 gallon tank from Pet Smart and all new fish currently are juveniles <1-2 inches outside of the Gold Rim who is small at about 3-4" max. As said no fighting and all eating, swimming, okay and normally with latest additions 2/18 and 3/2 to my QT respectively.

So question beside adding my tangs together at same time (different sizes and temperament I found works) do you and the rest of the guys/gals think the DT should be okay to restock now? Or should I go thru mid April for a total of 90+ days fallow? I am Thoughts?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hey Jay...okay back and ready I think to restock. Tank has been fallow since 15 Jan 2026 when last two fish died. Due to size of tank 300+ gallons...bleach 1 cup was added and then rock removed and 1/2 sand also removed and cleaned out my sump (rubble cleaned), Skimmer cleaned w/bleach and replaced one of my DC pumps too (while I was there). Then another bleach dosing was run thru the system about 2 weeks later and 20% water changed and then fresh water added and has been run thru the system since then approx last week of Jan. Added Prime dosing and Chlorine remover (Brightwell Erase Cl) on a regular a basis to remove chlorine and ammonia and nitrate from water and also added approx 50 lbs of black hawaiian reef sand. Started to add coraline algae started and live bio media (Seed) and now getting Ph and Alk up with Brightwell 8.3 and Seachem 8.4 in Feb also. Tank is looking good. Also added Cora Vue In sump UV setup (largest size avail) and so I think tank DT is doing good and should be ready. Have started to add clean up crew and cleaner shrimp x2 went into the DT this week along with 2 sand sifting starfish and are cruising about with Nessarius snails and a tiger conch and red legg hermits. Have I missed anything I missed?

Oh yeah fish...I think what this was that got in the tank was Brookynella in my tank in Dec over the holidays via a PetCO flame angel my daughter got on a Black Friday sale after Thanksgiving. Since my QT system was down/empty I let her introduce it as it looked good. Results wiped out my whole tank by Xmas. That's the after action report when we put it all together. Lack of some maintence and feeding and mismatches in stocking didn't help as some parts of the system also were out of wack/stressed too. For example all of my cleaner shrimp were killed off by my Triggers and thus no one to help pick up ich that developed too. Anyway as I've now gone fallow and caught last 5 fish of which 3 made it thru QT since Jan I think am good to start adding fish now no? Last 3 fish (maroon clown and 2 Australian Stripies have been in QT since Jan at 2.0-2.3 ppm copper using Copper Safe and I've tested it weekly and dose to keep it there. Have added a Purple tang and Desjardi Sailfin and Gold Rim to QT earlier about around 4 March and a Hippo tang about 2 weeks before that and all are eating Nori and Brine and chilling out in DQ. Have a juve Naso, a Biota Yellow tang arriving tomorrow for QT also. DT is a 55 gallon tank from Pet Smart and all new fish currently are juveniles <1-2 inches outside of the Gold Rim who is small at about 3-4" max. As said no fighting and all eating, swimming, okay and normally with latest additions 2/18 and 3/2 to my QT respectively.

So question beside adding my tangs together at same time (different sizes and temperament I found works) do you and the rest of the guys/gals think the DT should be okay to restock now? Or should I go thru mid April for a total of 90+ days fallow? I am Thoughts?

A couple of observations - in looking for biosecurity weaknesses, I see two possible concerns:

When you add CUC, there is always a risk that they can transport fish diseases. I get my CUC from a dealer who doesn't house fish in their CUC tanks, that helps a lot. We have a dealer in our area that uses the "great conditions" of their coral systems to "cure" sick fish. Most dealers at least use coral systems to house some herbivores and often things like mandarins. All that adds to the risk of you then putting the CUC into your tank. The risk may be low, but it isn't zero.

Then, it wasn't clear to me about your new fish additions. If you add new fish to a group of previously quarantined fish (not the best option if you can avoid it) you need to restart the full quarantine process on all of the fish. Also, you should incorporate some sort of control against flukes, as copper doesn't treat that, but they are really common to see in new fish.

 

[Ziggy17]

When you add CUC, there is always a risk that they can transport fish diseases.

Jay,
In the case of just snails, if you carefully brush the shells with a toothbrush dipped in peroxide, would that eliminate the transfer of disease and parasites or are they equipped to survive a direct dose?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Jay,
In the case of just snails, if you carefully brush the shells with a toothbrush dipped in peroxide, would that eliminate the transfer of disease and parasites or are they equipped to survive a direct dose?

Instead of peroxide, you can just scrub or rinse any invertebrates with clean seawater. Just as effective with less risk. Neither process is 100% effective, but it helps.

 

[mdrobc13]

A couple of observations - in looking for biosecurity weaknesses, I see two possible concerns:

When you add CUC, there is always a risk that they can transport fish diseases. I get my CUC from a dealer who doesn't house fish in their CUC tanks, that helps a lot. We have a dealer in our area that uses the "great conditions" of their coral systems to "cure" sick fish. Most dealers at least use coral systems to house some herbivores and often things like mandarins. All that adds to the risk of you then putting the CUC into your tank. The risk may be low, but it isn't zero.

Then, it wasn't clear to me about your new fish additions. If you add new fish to a group of previously quarantined fish (not the best option if you can avoid it) you need to restart the full quarantine process on all of the fish. Also, you should incorporate some sort of control against flukes, as copper doesn't treat that, but they are really common to see in new fish.

Jay
Ok thanks. Thought the CUC couldn't carry over anything like Brook or Velvet but sounds like that isn't fully true. In any event tank did get cleaned with bleach x2 and then fallow since Jan 2026 so it should be good. All corals and things living in the water column did not survive. Now this far out do you think I am ok?

As for adding new additions to QT reseting the previous fish duh I should have thought of that...if so would have moved fish earlier. However I did move my maroon clown and stripies before adding todays new fish and they as said have been in QT since Jan at 2.00-2.24 ppm Coppersafe so should be ok in DT. Rest of fish will reset as new addition was today and previous one 3/4 and 2/18 as said. What do you recommend against flukes? Can I do Prazipro the the DT or keep it to the QT or use a 10gal pre-transfer tank from QT to DT? What in my particular set up would you suggest? Thanks again...you're a great source of info!