Tank Phosphate Unbalance issue

[New_Reef]

Hello,

Beginner who started a fluval evo reef tank around 5/6 months ago tank fully cycled with not many issues. Only stock is 2 Clownfish and a red legged hermit crab.

With a Duncan coral and Zoa frag that are both struggling and have barely opened since purchasing around 3 weeks ago.

I have been battling a diatom outbreak and getting it under control with maintenance. Regular water changes and manual removal.

My parameters seem okay except for phosphate which is very high at 5ppm and nitrate at zero on test kit.

I am running phosguard and filter floss alongside a poly filter. And have now added micro algae in a hang on box. However, after a two weeks of running phosguard still not touched the phosphate levels.

Salinity - 35ppt
Temperature - 26 (Degrees Celsius)
Alkalinity - 10.5 DkH
PH - 8.2
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
Ammonia - <0.15
Calcium - 470

I am also dosing nitrifying bacteria.

Another thing to note is I did add four trochee snails but all died within 3 weeks.

My Duncan coral seems to open slightly when lights are off but not for long mainly shut no signs of bacterial disease.

Zoas were open at first now closed up and seem to be melting.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated just not sure what I’m doing working.

Many thanks

 

[bluemon]

Alk is a bit high.

How are you “running”phosguard?

In a reactor? Or just a bag in the tank?

Nitrates a bit low compared to the high phosphates.

What rocks are you using? Was it live rock? Rocks can absorb phosphates and release it until a certain equilibrium

 

[KrisReef]

What P test are you using to get 5ppm from?
Why are you dosing nitrifying bacteria, instead of ammonia (nitrogen)?

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Are you sure it is diatoms and not dino's? Its unusual to be battling diatoms at 6 months in. That might explain the snail deaths and corals struggling.

 

[New_Reef]

Alk is a bit high.

How are you “running”phosguard?

In a reactor? Or just a bag in the tank?

Nitrates a bit low compared to the high phosphates.

What rocks are you using? Was it live rock? Rocks can absorb phosphates and release it until a certain equilibrium

Phosguard is in a media bag in high flow area of filter chamber no reactor. It was dry rock no live rock added.

 

[New_Reef]

What P test are you using to get 5ppm from?
Why are you dosing nitrifying bacteria, instead of ammonia (nitrogen)?

I’m using a salifert test kit reads at 3ppm max but diluting test I get 5ppm. Why should I be dosing ammonia ?

 

[New_Reef]

Are you sure it is diatoms and not dino's? Its unusual to be battling diatoms at 6 months in. That might explain the snail deaths and corals struggling.

It doesn’t really look like dinos when compared to some images online fairly “dusty” and can be blown off the rocks and substrate. I will attach pictures tomorrow.

 

[KrisReef]

Ammonia provides food that corals need. Growth of corals requires uptake of Phosphorus (your elevated parameter) and ammonia provides N.

DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

Some reef aquaria have chronic low nitrogen availability. One indicator is very low nitrate. Nitrate dosing is a fine remedy, but it is possible that ammonia dosing may be more beneficial for some organisms since ammonia can be energetically easier to assimilate than is nitrate. For this...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[New_Reef]

Dosing Ammonia seems risky would dosing Nitrate not give a similar result with less risk ?

 

[Slcwinder]

Are you sure it is diatoms and not dino's? Its unusual to be battling diatoms at 6 months in. That might explain the snail deaths and corals struggling.

This right here

 

[Matt Bravo]

Dosing Ammonia seems risky would dosing Nitrate not give a similar result with less risk ?

I personally wouldn’t dose ammonia, you can dose nitrates. I dose neonitro to bump nitrates after a water change as well

 

[Fish Fan]

Dosing Ammonia seems risky would dosing Nitrate not give a similar result with less risk ?

I personally wouldn’t dose ammonia, you can dose nitrates. I dose neonitro to bump nitrates after a water change as well

There's less concern dosing ammonia and more benefits that one may initially think. Corals can't use nitrate directly, but corrals can and do uptake ammonia directly. And ammonia isn't really harmful to fish in concentrations under about 0.50 ppm (and properly dosing ammonia shouldn't raise the concentration that high). So if done with some care, it's fairly safe and beneficial to the tank

Take a look at the link posted above about DIY ammonia dosing, that article was written by RHF, who's a real-deal professional chemist, and who has been a reef tank guru for at least 30 years now.

I hope that helps.

 

[Matt Bravo]

Dosing Ammonia seems risky would dosing Nitrate not give a similar result with less risk ?

I personally wouldn’t dose ammonia, you can dose nitrates. I dose neonitro to bump nitrates after a water change as well

There's less concern dosing ammonia and more benefits that one may initially think. Corals can't use nitrate directly, but corrals can and do uptake ammonia directly. And ammonia isn't really harmful to fish in concentrations under about 0.50 ppm (and properly dosing ammonia shouldn't raise the concentration that high). So if done with some care, it's fairly safe and beneficial to the tank

Take a look at the link posted above about DIY ammonia dosing, that article was written by RHF, who's a real-deal professional chemist, and who has been a reef tank guru for at least 30 years now.

I hope that helps.

I’ll admit I’ve never heard of this but you got me interested, I’ll take a look

 

[Fish Fan]

I’ll admit I’ve never heard of this but you got me interested, I’ll take a look

Take a look at that link, that member does not give bad advice

Personally, I have never done this because I have never in my life had a tank that just naturally ran at low levels of anything lol! But I know of many members here who are doing ammonia safely and effectively.

 

[Miami Reef]

It takes over 8 ppm total ammonia for several days in order to kill fish.

The dose we add is about 0.1 - 0.2 ppm. Nitrifying bacteria and corals quickly consume it. It’s safe.

That being said, you can always dose nitrate directly. Ammonium is not required if you want faster results or don’t feel comfortable with it.

DIY Nitrate Dosing Recipe

Here’s a quick guide of the DIY nitrate recipes we commonly use for reef tanks. Sodium nitrate and calcium nitrate are the most common materials used. It’s crucial to ensure that these compounds are food-grade or have a purity rating. Sourcing pure chemicals is more economical than purchasing...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Fish Fan]

It takes over 8 ppm total ammonia for several days in order to kill fish.

^Folks, another R2R member who is awesome with reef chemistry questions!

I have personally been questioning what concentration of ammonia would be toxic to fish, there's a lot of conflicting info I've read. I could swear that just recently RHF suggested that 0.50 ppm was when you would want to get concerned about ammonia, but I must be mistaken. I have no doubt you're correct here

Thanks for your reply and help!

 

[Miami Reef]

I could swear that just recently RHF suggested that 0.50 ppm was when you would want to get concerned about ammonia

Total ammonia and free ammonia are different.

Free ammonia is toxic at or above 0.50 ppm. That’s what the Seachem badge reports.

Total ammonia is toxic at about 10 ppm.


They are reporting the same thing on a different scale.

 

[Fish Fan]

Total ammonia and free ammonia are different.

Free ammonia is toxic at or above 0.50 ppm. That’s what the Seachem badge reports.

Total ammonia is toxic at about 10 ppm.


They are reporting the same thing on a different scale.

Are you basically saying the the SeaChem ammonia alert badge picks up the free ammonia, but other test kits are reading the total ammonia? Is this true for the Hanna Ammonia Checker, which I use for QT tanks and cycling, primarily?

Is this related to discussions of ammonia verses specifically the amount of nitrogen (which I see more of in freshwater planted discussions)?

 

[Miami Reef]

, but other test kits are reading the total ammonia? Is this true for the Hanna Ammonia Checker, which I use for QT tanks and cycling, primarily?

Yes. Most kits like API, Red Sea, Hanna, Salifert, etc are using the Salicylate method. It’s measuring total ammonia.

 

[Miami Reef]

Is this related to discussions of ammonia verses specifically the amount of nitrogen (which I see more of in freshwater planted discussions)?

Hmm. I’m not sure I understand.

0.1 ppm total ammonia is equal to 0.36 ppm nitrate.