The greatest responsibility of new cyclers is fish disease prep, what are you doing to prepare?

[brandon429]

Homer

you wrote:
Buy healthy fish, keep them fat and healthy, and most disease is non existent


that’s what I’m against. It only works in your tank, it doesn’t meet the demands new tankers face


That advice is specifically not in the disease forum stickies


That advice helps new tanks 0%

Blocking works great, Homer and Lyss and Sixty have been blocked by me but you still post in my threads. Select the button and stick with it next time.


this thread on disease exists in the new tanks forum where most systems are bare white rocks, not any maturity at all, the push back you all give in trying to meet needs in this niche is really trolling. These new tanks need special preps before being stocked, even though at close of cycling we can carry complete bioloads the discussion here is what we need to be doing specifically to kill less fish and replace them by month eight.


I think the main driver for fish disease improvement will be massively increased costs to attain fish, as long as they’re cheap and replaceable there isn’t any incentive to be better. Clownfish are bred at the rate of guppies so they’ll nearly always get skipped in preps, maybe the other ones will rise in cost one day so vastly that to flippantly stock them won’t be affordable like it is now.


when people kill fish in quarantine I don’t think qt is bad, I think the people were bad at setting up and managing the interim step. There are exceptionally calm and solid ways to set up qt’s it doesn’t always have to be a pvc pipe. Anyone who cares enough to read and prep can find the ideal ways. In many cases fish that would have died in the display can be assessed before going in as basic observation, another benefit of taking time to prep.


Homer out of all your destructive repetitive commentary I gained that buying petco fish can be a source of issue, strong insight.

 

[TheHunterYall]

Regardless of opinions, etc. I don’t know why UV isn’t as mandatory as a protein skimmer or at least as prevalent. I would think it would benefit a QT and and a display along with either MO. All sides push that. I like to do a little of everything, UV, GC, skimming, fuge, cuc, socks in/out, etc. that’s my mantra. I QT in the beginning, I would say semi successfully but moved away from it…

 

[TheHunterYall]

Regardless of opinions, etc. I don’t know why UV isn’t as mandatory as a protein skimmer or at least as prevalent. I would think it would benefit a QT and and a display along with either MO. All sides push that. I like to do a little of everything, UV, GC, skimming, fuge, cuc, socks in/out, etc. that’s my mantra. I QT in the beginning, I would say semi successfully but moved away from it…

Also got into the white worm action and feed/infuse quality variety of foods.

 

[TheHunterYall]

Also got into the white worm action and feed/infuse quality variety of foods.

I am also heavily influenced by captive bred , aqua cultured etc. as much as I can.

 

[brandon429]

Hunter I would agree UV is a strong beneficial device to recommend it helps in several ways for new tanks. I know the jury isn’t fully decided on UV and disease preps but it can’t hurt and there’s at least thirty years of anecdotal patterning saying it does help with some diseases - and they for sure help in preventing dinos and common invasion headaches


Thats a fitting post for a new tank specific thread. I’m pro UV because of the thousands of times we installed them in invasion challenges and the keepers updated months later with strong turnaround pics. I do believe it’s a direct prep step up a new reefer can employ vs just a bare rock setup

Zoos use UV in the vast vast majority of setups

 

[threebuoys]

MISS POST

 

[i_am_mclovin]

I think we are all getting trolled.

 

[brandon429]

planning my stocking list

I know there are a lot of threads about these, but I'm the type who likes to make sure I've planned out my stock list. The worst fish purchase is the impulse buy, and I want to make sure I create a list and a schedule and stick to it. My tank is 5' long and around 120 gallons in the DT (plus a...

www.reef2reef.com

you practice quarantine and fish preps, that link I listed above was helpful input you gave to the thread.


Imagine showing up here and leading with this: here’s what I do to ensure decent preps in a brand new tank… agreed I thought you were trolling until I read about you adhering to best practices from the disease forum


clearly you’re aware of loss potential if you skipped all that.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Sixty, I usually don’t read what you post, there’s no benefit in convincing you.

There may be copyright's being infringed in this sentence, I believe I used it first

Your main goal is to determine if tap water harms nitrifiers - why are you here if you aren’t adding helpful things a new tanker can do to reduce fish loss?


wend are you going to add that info?

That thread showed me and many others that even though tap water was safe to use, you just had a lucky guess as in no comment I’ve seen you supporting the test. I convinced that not even you knew the effects.

I gave my polite comment at the begging of this thread, but I believe my different ideologies got me blocked for some reason.

how’s it going with that rip clean where you asked a “new member” to remove a rock full of Aipatasia and just cut them off like mushrooms?

 

[brandon429]

To Summarize McLovin’s disease preps as I read them: they match fish disease forum mode. Preps show careful study and expenditure into preparing against fish disease in the ways Jay writes

doesnt use safety stop


doesn’t rely solely on uv


doesn’t skip preps and aim for good feeding alone


am I correct in summarizing this way, that you do exactly what new reef tank keepers should be doing?

 

[Ef4life]

Is this normal when treating Brook?

Hi, I am treating my female clownfish in my QT tank. I believe the clown had a mild case of Brook. I only saw a small amount of white spots. But I saw faint little like spots where the coloration was a bit different. (Not white spots, but it didn’t really look like flukes either). Is this what...

www.reef2reef.com

it turns out zoos dont use it, and neither does the disease forum

safety stop comes from one off testimonies and the pros don’t use it or recommend it. Don’t get mad at me for the summary I hadn’t even heard about it till just now, but do searches and let me know if Jay or HF recommend it.


we as hobbyists simply don’t want to the do the prep work and time and expenditure it takes to rise to what these fish need, they’re too easy to just replace. Of course we aren’t going to train new tankers on ultimate responsibility, everyone is self convinced their ideas are better than Jays.


I predict in all of 2022 the stickies in the disease forum don’t get a new update for quick fixes. Refinements to methods linked for the last two straight years will continue because thats what zoos use, that’s what scientists can control the best in the public setting, and most folks not tasked with working public tanks will continue to make opposite recommends. That was all of 2021 as well. Fish disease rates will increase not decrease in 2022 and nobody, not one of you, skips vaccinating the new puppy. Solid bet. You won’t do a home remedy, you’ll take him right to the vet where the best science of the day is given and you’ll pay for it and adhere to the peer training you‘ve been given for decent dog care- it’d be mean and terrible to skip it.

I just read the parvo vaccine still has an associated mortality rate

like quarantine


yet vets recommend it still vs winging it, vs home remedy options

Fish behaving erratically, inexplicably

Hi All, looking for a bit of advice on the below: Late yesterday afternoon I noticed my female clownfish behaving erratically. I have a clown pair and a tailspot blenny in a Max Nano, and on further observation I saw all 3 behaving this way: rapid gill movements, gasping/open mouths, darting...

www.reef2reef.com

Lyss I fully wrote this thread just for that type of setup. I can see why this thread is ruffling, your lfs will sell you any degree of replacement fish.


Im in direct 100% disagreement with how you stocked that reef. Follow up posts after that one show you don’t intend on changing either, new fish coming in soon

it’s exactly why I made this post for stepped up responsibility in preps, thousands of people are building nanos like you did, we want to intercept the losses ahead of time. in any cycling thread I run, the advice is to never head down this path of no prep stocking. I want new reefers practicing fish disease control, preventions, from Jays forum or HF’s forum.

even safety stop would be more prudent than you adding unprepped fish, literally any prep effort at all would be a start.



it takes increased accountability to work through this massive block you guys teach each other regarding disease preps, and it doesn’t appear either of you advocate actions from the disease forum, I’ll read your links where you did advise Jays practices to others if you want to present a few. From what I can tell, you do not relay disease preps by habit and that makes your responses here not a surprise.

Homer Please link any post where you advised others on any form of disease prep in case I missed it. When I read about you adding new fish I didn’t see disease preps listed, clarify please so you aren’t short changed. Lyss I didn’t miss it in your posts, it’s flat out not there at all.

why would a zoo or aquarium use safety stop? The staff is typically well versed in the handling of fish and or corals, and have a background and education in biology, chemistry, sciences etc etc you know stuff that qualifies them to be employed in that job in the first place. Volunteers that help out at aquariums and zoos with little to no experience aren’t making the decisions and building protocol for quarantine of the inhabitants they just help and learn and pick stuff up along the way. So why would they use a cheap product that’s in your own words better than nothing, when they have the tools at there disposal to do it right and they also have knowledge on how to do it or can/will talk to one of their scientist/biologist peers for advice - or their career at the zoo is going to be short lived.

but the fact is formalin and methylene are used in quarantine and even jay mentioned the correct dosage for using them in the post you linked, but he couldn’t recommend safety stop personally (and rightfully so imo) because he never used it nor does he know the concentration of the product, which should be easy enough to test for someone in this hobby with the right tests and tools to do so. And again why would jay use it when he can buy both of those products in a larger volume aka “bulk” for less money overall than a single doseage packets. Hint - he wouldn’t, why? Because he’s experienced and knows what he’s doing and has literally handled thousands of fish. Unlike 99% of hobbyists.

 

[brandon429]

You added a mode that is a step up from no protection at all thank you.

when I scanned the stickies in both major disease forums I didn’t see it listed, safety stop, so it seemed like a compromise compared to what the stickies did offer. agreed it’s better than nothing and if they’re using it in large batches then thats a great perspective to offer for a scaled down treatment option.

I wanted to see more of the method, the bucket method used with safety stop and it’s inherent timing moreso than a challenge to the chemical at hand.
Both disease forums advocate more in depth treatment it seems

your writing added for us an option someone can do to move up on the scales of disease control compared to none at all, mostly what I see in cycling threads is none at all so it’s appreciated.

 

[Aqua Man]

again a direct request directly to you

Define quarantine

 

[i_am_mclovin]

planning my stocking list

I know there are a lot of threads about these, but I'm the type who likes to make sure I've planned out my stock list. The worst fish purchase is the impulse buy, and I want to make sure I create a list and a schedule and stick to it. My tank is 5' long and around 120 gallons in the DT (plus a...

www.reef2reef.com

you practice quarantine and fish preps, that link I listed above was helpful input you gave to the thread.


Imagine showing up here and leading with this: here’s what I do to ensure decent preps in a brand new tank… agreed I thought you were trolling until I read about you adhering to best practices from the disease forum


clearly you’re aware of loss potential if you skipped all that.

No one is saying losses don’t happen. It’s your elitism that’s the issue. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

 

[brandon429]

If you were clearer on motive and detail when you write I wouldn’t have to click to search your real perspective.



we extracted some helpful input anyway


The title of the thread places an onus of responsibility on new tank owners simple as that. stepped up responsibility is the heart of the post and the title. Read into that as far as you like, we saw what we needed to see from what you do behind the scenes and not for show.


good job on tank preps being in line with the fish disease forum it would have been awesome for you to lead with something as simple. You feigned issue at the risk for non preps but then made sure to secure them in tank design. We will take the prep examples anyway we can get them.

 

[Paul B]

no longer can you just buy pet store fish and add them to your cycled tank

I do.

 

[Ef4life]

You added a mode that is a step up from no protection

your writing added for us an option someone can do to move up on the scales of disease control compared to none at all, mostly what I see in cycling threads is none at all so it’s appreciated.

and that’s really what your thread is about. No newb is going to join the hobby if he can’t buy a fish, no lfs is going to stay in business if they decline to sell fish to newbs without them having a full quarantine setup and host of medications at the ready. And that’s why I recommended it, it’s just a start towards being better, and it’s something everyone can do that doesn’t make your head spin with information overload.

I do agree with the message your pushing that there needs to be a lot more accountability at the individual level, but that’s like pushing a boulder up a mountain. And that why I feel this stuff needs to be handled top down from the wholesale then retail level, and when that happens it’s going to price a lot of people out of the hobby, but those higher priced fish aren’t going to be treated as disposable.

 

[brandon429]

@Paul B

I 100% believe that and sincerely believe it works ongoing in a tank that diverse, that matured that balanced and stocked and refreshed in the ways the ole boy has been built.

thank you for posting.

Paul isn’t blocked, his idea for safe quarantine (beyond pvc= does exist) as relayed by Tamberav I found to be very helpful for new tankers

it’s that kind of insight vs mindless personal attacks we need more of. I’ve seen Paul modify his fish prep offers relative to the tank at hand, instead of just his own tank, thats missing bigtime here in this thread.

 

[Thaxxx]

Brandon never reads others posts, he skims them, makes assumptions base don what he skimmed, and he's always right. Specially if you don't have his precious "work threads" to refrence, your always wrong.

God I hope a mod comes in and cleans up this mess.

He doesn't even skim the comments because he has as many people on ignore as they have him on ignore. All he ever does is......
Beat a Dead horse.

 

[Lyss]

LOL initially it was said that while we disagree, I add value; now that was edited to say "I don't read your posts b/c we disagree..." I also am not sure we ever talked about cycling together, since I see it was edited to say "cycling" now as well. I just have no words other than to say I'm disappointed, but wish well to all in here trying to do their best and do what they can.