What massive loss rate? You keep saying the sky is falling but aren’t providing any sources of data.
The greatest responsibility of new cyclers is fish disease prep, what are you doing to prepare?
- Thread starter brandon429
- Start date
- Tagged users None
OP
OP
It’s in post #2 as a prominent link
Imagine your input was so valuable that a zoo hired you to run all their aquatics stuff, and a web board valued it such that an entire wing of a forum was dedicated to the side you choose in disease preps
and twenty times a day all days, folks posted disease help threads desperately wanting you to respond and save their fish
what would you advise them to do? Type that here and be specific
heres what you’d advise:
www.reef2reef.com
the number of new daily posts for help there in the link from post #2 is one clue you might detect when trying
and another would be for you to make a chart for the first ten pages of the disease forum, every new entrant thread, click on their name badge, select find all threads, go to their first thread which often tells you in the build details how old the tank is, and log the % posting for help with tanks older or younger than eight months. Exclude examples where you can’t validate tank age
Let’s say you took time to do that, and your data showed 70% of any page in pattern is comprised of new tanks under eight months old, who skip prep
what then would you do having expended more effort for once than just a cursory read?
what I would do is bring that inspection right to the first thing anyone reads in a how to cycle thread. Somehow they didn’t have to get warned when buying puppies, it’s just a known given we take them to vets and we vaccinate them against known maladies for canids. I’d like to see that standard applied to the thousands of fish we collectively waste daily far after collection and transport.
Imagine your input was so valuable that a zoo hired you to run all their aquatics stuff, and a web board valued it such that an entire wing of a forum was dedicated to the side you choose in disease preps
and twenty times a day all days, folks posted disease help threads desperately wanting you to respond and save their fish
what would you advise them to do? Type that here and be specific
heres what you’d advise:
planning my stocking list
I know there are a lot of threads about these, but I'm the type who likes to make sure I've planned out my stock list. The worst fish purchase is the impulse buy, and I want to make sure I create a list and a schedule and stick to it. My tank is 5' long and around 120 gallons in the DT (plus a...
www.reef2reef.com
the number of new daily posts for help there in the link from post #2 is one clue you might detect when trying
and another would be for you to make a chart for the first ten pages of the disease forum, every new entrant thread, click on their name badge, select find all threads, go to their first thread which often tells you in the build details how old the tank is, and log the % posting for help with tanks older or younger than eight months. Exclude examples where you can’t validate tank age
Let’s say you took time to do that, and your data showed 70% of any page in pattern is comprised of new tanks under eight months old, who skip prep
what then would you do having expended more effort for once than just a cursory read?
what I would do is bring that inspection right to the first thing anyone reads in a how to cycle thread. Somehow they didn’t have to get warned when buying puppies, it’s just a known given we take them to vets and we vaccinate them against known maladies for canids. I’d like to see that standard applied to the thousands of fish we collectively waste daily far after collection and transport.
Last edited:
TastesLikeChicken
Well-Known Member
One death is too many in this hobby. Remember these were ocean swimming fish (except captive bred) that were living their lives and minding their own business. Then we scooped them up, put them through horrible conditions and many of them die in our care. I agree with the OP, there needs to be better accountability. I don’t care how it’s done, but we have to educate and try our best to care for these animals. Otherwise, we WILL run out of ornamental fish in the ocean. Then where will the hobby be.
And honestly I don’t want more people to enter this hobby. This should remain a niche hobby undertaken by informed and responsible individuals. What’s the point of having a bunch of additional people join the hobby only to kill more fish.
And honestly I don’t want more people to enter this hobby. This should remain a niche hobby undertaken by informed and responsible individuals. What’s the point of having a bunch of additional people join the hobby only to kill more fish.
Forum threads are anecdote. You keep saying the dying rate and the loss of fish rate. What rate? Are you just using anecdotes to say the sky is falling? I’m confused.It’s in post #2 as a prominent link
Imagine your input was so valuable that a zoo hired you to run all their aquatics stuff, and a web board valued it such that an entire wing of a forum was dedicated to the side you choose in disease preps
and twenty times a day all days, folks posted disease help threads desperately wanting you to respond and save their fish
what would you advise them to do? Type that here and be specific
the number of new daily posts for help there in the link from post #2 is one clue you might detect when trying
and another would be for you to make a chart for the first ten pages of the disease forum, every new entrant thread, click on their name badge, select find all threads, go to their first thread which often tells you in the build details how old the tank is, and log the % posting for help with tanks older or younger than eight months. Let’s say you took time to do that, and your data showed 70% of any page is comprised of new tanks under eight months old, who skip prep
what then would you do having expended more effort for once than just a cursory read?
what I would do is bring that inspection right to the first thing anyone reads in a how to cycle thread. Somehow they didn’t have to get warned when buying puppies, it’s just a known given we take them to vets and we vaccinate them against known maladies for canids. I’d like to see that standard applied to the thousands of fish we collectively waste daily far after collection and transport.
TastesLikeChicken
Well-Known Member
Why are you confused. Don’t you see the fish from various sources dying. The collectors, the shippers, the wholesalers, the online stores, the pet stores, people homes, etc etc etc. I had the best intention 20 years ago when I was in the hobby, but I killed so many fish. To say that we are not killing these fish by the numbers is to have eyes wide shut. We need to do better.
I never said fish don’t die. The case is being made that the death rate is “massive” and has increased dramatically.
If you want to change it, start a chain of stores that offers fully QT fish, brick and mortar, that ppl can shop for and pick up/take home locally. How about a fancy pop-up w/in Petco — they are already in everyone’s neighborhood. The person who does it and can successfully scale it would be sitting on a goldmine, b/c there are plenty of ppl willing to pay a premium for this.
And like I said using the forum here as data is not going to be accurate b/c folks with problems are over-represented.
And like I said using the forum here as data is not going to be accurate b/c folks with problems are over-represented.
Auquanut
5000 Club Member
Partner Member 2024
Excellence Award
Reef Tank 365
RGB
Reef Squad Emeritus
Hospitality Award
Midwest Reefer
My Tank Thread
You make a good point. The reefers with healthy fish are not going to post in the disease forum that all is well. Whether they followed a certain method or not.
TastesLikeChicken
Well-Known Member
It may very well be that there is data bias. But let those of us who have succeeded advocate for these animals and teach the people who are failing. Let us also demand better from sources that treat them like disposable commodities (I.e. certain on line vendors). We gain so much pleasure from these animals. Let us give back just a little to help them.
Teaching and helping is def good. But going after everyone like they fit a certain mold is not. I posted once in that forum with an issue that turned out to be a legitimate electrical issue and everyone was telling me my fish had brook and I should pull them to treat, and fallow the tank. It’s like folks have a one-track mind.
I also have a real problem with placing blame on the consumer here. The whole system needs to change IMO.
I disagree.
I do not have a QT and will never. I think QTs kill fish. I don't want to kill fish I purchase. LFS should be and for me is QT. Lucky for me I have a LFS that lets me keep a fish, especially an expensive fish there for a week or 3 or 4. I stop in from time to time checking on my fish and watch it eat and look for stress and disease.
The more times you move a fish and change its environment the lesser the chance that fish has for survival.
ying yang
2500 Club Member
Has a thread been started asking " how many fish have you lost in first 8 months of reefing and how did fish/s die and did you qt or not qt ?"
As if has then would back up that 80% of fish die within first 8 months if no qt/ no diesese prep etc.
Either that or won't back it up as like I see often gets said is most people who have fish losses start a thread about it asking for help rather than starting a thread saying " my fish not died yet "
I seen threads asking what % actually qt or not and most do not,but never seen any thread asking EVERYONE who qt and who doesn't qt in any way shape or form " how many fish died from dieseses" ?
But as I write this ,I'm thinking even if a thread has been started then if wake up one morning and a fish dead,did it die from bullying or diesese or stress or whatever else idk
And I'm like one of posters said above and feel no need whatsoever to pick a side,I'm on the side of I want to enjoy my tank as much as possible with least trouble and would like to help others when I can and get help when needed .
And post 2 in this thread isnt a thread asking EVERYONE how many fish they lost in first 8 months if qt or not qt,its lots problems with diesesed fishes either dying or have died and while that % maybe 80% that don't qt at all,it doesnt show how many % haven't lost fish in first 8 month as didnt post " my fish not died yet "
And fwiw the fewer animals that die the better.
But if someone qt does it mean it's the best way idk,I know some may buy cheap copper test kits instead of expensive hannah tester as see nearly always get mentioned then copper overdosed or may over dose the tank by accident or may deviate slightly from qt recomendations as there is even debates on this site what does qt actually mean,which way to do it etc etc and fish dies in qt when it maybe wouldn't of if didnt qt.
Then there's other side of argument and that's new reefers don't generally have mature reefs and seems live ocean rock getting harder and harder to get or more expensive than ever so takes longer to get a mature tank starting with dry rock so until you get a mature tank you should qt and do a medicated qt so no diesese gets in dt and run inverts in a fishless system for few months first so no fish dieseses gets in dt and if dont qt then you will definately have huge fish losses .
Anyway this sone of my take on what I've been reading for better part this year on this site reading threads like this ,could literally write a 2000 word essay on my thoughts alone on this lol but am genuinely curious if a thread ever been started asking EVERYONE " how many fiah have you lost in first 8 months and did they die of diesese or not and did you qt or not qt and what kind of qt?"
And to keep transparent I thought reading alot fish diesese threads that every fish that gets bought must be diesesed so 100% need to qt and medicate all fish I get ,and bought separate tank to have as qt and bought 2 clownfish and 1 looked worse for wear once I put in my qt tank so ended up swapping it for another 2 clownfish from same tank at lfs and lfs told me the ill looking one died few days later,but after reading more on this site and seeing someone saying that in United States alone there is either 100000 -300000 reefers I think it was,I thought ummmm that's alot for just one country so could it really be as high as 80% of fish die in first 8 months ,so started researching more and more and kept the new 2 clowns in an observational qt for a month ( which is still running to this day but been empty since clowns left it) which main dt I think been running 9 months now and apart from that 1 clownfish that died few days later after took back to lfs I lost no fish and had very few problems in tank in general ,regarding ugly stages,feeding difficult fish,etc
Had 2 minor set backs and some questions,that's about it.
As if has then would back up that 80% of fish die within first 8 months if no qt/ no diesese prep etc.
Either that or won't back it up as like I see often gets said is most people who have fish losses start a thread about it asking for help rather than starting a thread saying " my fish not died yet "
I seen threads asking what % actually qt or not and most do not,but never seen any thread asking EVERYONE who qt and who doesn't qt in any way shape or form " how many fish died from dieseses" ?
But as I write this ,I'm thinking even if a thread has been started then if wake up one morning and a fish dead,did it die from bullying or diesese or stress or whatever else idk
And I'm like one of posters said above and feel no need whatsoever to pick a side,I'm on the side of I want to enjoy my tank as much as possible with least trouble and would like to help others when I can and get help when needed .
And post 2 in this thread isnt a thread asking EVERYONE how many fish they lost in first 8 months if qt or not qt,its lots problems with diesesed fishes either dying or have died and while that % maybe 80% that don't qt at all,it doesnt show how many % haven't lost fish in first 8 month as didnt post " my fish not died yet "
And fwiw the fewer animals that die the better.
But if someone qt does it mean it's the best way idk,I know some may buy cheap copper test kits instead of expensive hannah tester as see nearly always get mentioned then copper overdosed or may over dose the tank by accident or may deviate slightly from qt recomendations as there is even debates on this site what does qt actually mean,which way to do it etc etc and fish dies in qt when it maybe wouldn't of if didnt qt.
Then there's other side of argument and that's new reefers don't generally have mature reefs and seems live ocean rock getting harder and harder to get or more expensive than ever so takes longer to get a mature tank starting with dry rock so until you get a mature tank you should qt and do a medicated qt so no diesese gets in dt and run inverts in a fishless system for few months first so no fish dieseses gets in dt and if dont qt then you will definately have huge fish losses .
Anyway this sone of my take on what I've been reading for better part this year on this site reading threads like this ,could literally write a 2000 word essay on my thoughts alone on this lol but am genuinely curious if a thread ever been started asking EVERYONE " how many fiah have you lost in first 8 months and did they die of diesese or not and did you qt or not qt and what kind of qt?"
And to keep transparent I thought reading alot fish diesese threads that every fish that gets bought must be diesesed so 100% need to qt and medicate all fish I get ,and bought separate tank to have as qt and bought 2 clownfish and 1 looked worse for wear once I put in my qt tank so ended up swapping it for another 2 clownfish from same tank at lfs and lfs told me the ill looking one died few days later,but after reading more on this site and seeing someone saying that in United States alone there is either 100000 -300000 reefers I think it was,I thought ummmm that's alot for just one country so could it really be as high as 80% of fish die in first 8 months ,so started researching more and more and kept the new 2 clowns in an observational qt for a month ( which is still running to this day but been empty since clowns left it) which main dt I think been running 9 months now and apart from that 1 clownfish that died few days later after took back to lfs I lost no fish and had very few problems in tank in general ,regarding ugly stages,feeding difficult fish,etc
Had 2 minor set backs and some questions,that's about it.
TastesLikeChicken
Well-Known Member
You are lucky to have such a nice LFS. I think this is the exception rather than the rule.
Poorly run QTs kill fish. It’s a science and an art that can be mastered with practice.
Your end result is what the OP intends for the fish. Happy, healthy, thriving. Perhaps it doesn’t matter how one gets to the end result as long as it’s achieved. Some do it via QT; some, like yourself, do it by buying from a reputable and responsible LFS, etc. I don’t think the OP said you have to use a QT. I think his intention was to bring to light that disease is universally common in ornamental fish and the cause of many avoidable deaths. We should be aware of it and address it just as we are aware of and address a new tank cycle.
Ok. Your QT better be as good or better than your DT for that fish to have a chance. Heck just leave it in the QT......
Totally agree. This is a reasonable statement. My only issue was with the anecdotal doomsday fire and brimstone by the OP.
TastesLikeChicken
Well-Known Member
One fish already through QT and in display tank. Three other fish on day 19 in QT. One day at a time.
SteveMac84
Active Member
I am new And I completely agree with you. Thank you for standing up. Comparing puppies who need a few shots by a Dr of medicine and feeding them properly and loving them, to this hobby is apples and oranges. There have been so many good people so far that have been very helpful In the learning process. There is a fine line between lecturing and encouraging. Encouraging support with experience and information is a far better approach to helping others improve their odds of reaching success and truly enjoying this hobby.
Similar threads
New Posts
-
-
-
my boiled tap water has no chlorine so…??- Latest: sharkbait-uhaha
