The misrepresentation is astounding!

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BlennyTime

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Who knows how it will work out. Our electric company has already said they are going to spread the increase out over "several" billing cycles.
I saw one was planning to offer a 10+ year financing plan for the charges. Just craziness. Sure hope something will be done about it.
 
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Dennis Cartier

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I think the problem goes deeper. The sellers have bought into the idea of extreme value in corals as well. This past weekend I was visiting a coral vendor and asked about a colony he has had for awhile. I was thinking it would be $200-250 dollars. He confided in me that he had paid $2000 for the colony. At which point I laughed and told him he was crazy for paying that much. The colony was nice, but nothing special or even rare for that matter.

When they start drinking their own kool-aid, then the crazy prices just keep getting crazier.

Dennis
 

Dos

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I've seen sooooooo many posts where someone is selling torches for $275 to $400 and up.

They slap a fancy name on it and take a pic with blue light or use a filter to make the coral look slightly different but the problem is....
Is just a torch coral!
Nothing special about it at all.

It breaks my heart to see people on R2R activity trying to rip people off.

Torch coral is not the only coral I see people trying to catch unknowing suckers with but it has to be about the most egregious.

I'm not going to point anyone out or name names but it really is a sorry state of affairs.
Yes sir, but this is their business. If you work or do business you try to get the best price you know it, When experienced seller meets not experienced buyer seller gets money and buyer gets experience
 

Lovefish77

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I honestly love those torches but because i font know a lot i am always scared to pay $300 for a torch that would normally sell for $90 lol.
There are a lot of sexy names for torches and the filters to match lol. I am for using filters to correct the blue hue we have in tanks (as cameras WB cannot handle and not designed to handle them by default) but you should only do filters to correct that misrepresentation and not to entice people with colors that you would PROBABLY only see under royal blue.
 
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gray808

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Waiting for all of the "supply and demand", "If someone wants to pay",
"Its the American way" responses.
They're coming.......
OK, I'll bite.

Any coral is worth exactly what you are willing to pay for it.

Should the torch I got for $40 cost more, or less? No idea. It was worth $40 to me. I'd have probably paid $100. If they had tried to charge $5000 for it, I'd have snorted and walked on down the tank.

Don't want them to be be expensive? Don't sell them for high amounts. Or heck, give em away free if you want.

--Gray
 

adumb112

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We’ve done this to ourselves with the new leds out there. I think it’s rad, but unfortunately I’ll never be able to afford these holy grails, hellfire and indo golds. I did buy a Rasta torch online which turned out to be a 250$ green tip with a mollusk growing in its mouth. It eventually died after 3 months and the shop ghosted my emails. I’m happy with my plain green torches. They add a beautiful movement to the tank and grow well.
 

MONTANTK

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I don’t have an issue with prices as much I do with the photos being taken. I see way too many filters being used that make torches look more orange than they really are or even red!!! As soon as I see that I avoid the seller all together. I notice it a lot with acros as well. The naming of corals is become quite exhausting simply because every variation has at least 4-5 different names at 4-5 different prices
 

Erin1971Texas

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Same with other euphyllia, especially "octospawn" that's really frogspawn. And don't get me started with all the overpriced "frammer" varieties! I have no problem with someone not knowing what they have and mis-naming it, but I've recently seen "kingspawn", "godspawn" (for euphyllia; I know there is a mushroom by this name), etc, and other made up names that the seller insists are accurate. Even saw one guy selling a "super rare" variety of euphyllia that was "a cross between an elegance and an octospawn"... it was actually a stressed out frogspawn with a gaping mouth. smh
 

burton14e7

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All the torches I see online were $10 for a couple heads when I got into reefing so I just chuckle every time I see them.
 
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Axtellaa

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RichardinMA

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I have been in the reef hobby for over 30 years and have watched this getting worse and worse for pretty much all corals. One of the biggest driving factors I see is that too many people think it’s some kind of status symbol to have spent $1,000, or $2,000 on a coral for their tank. I see time and time again, people talking down to others on these forums “bro if you can’t afford this hobby then don’t get started”. It’s ridiculous. It turns into a D measuring contest for too many people with whoever spends the most somehow being the “serious” reefer. Personally, I’m more impressed with the reefer that can grow an awesome tank of corals using aqua lifter pumps and timers to dose (yes, I’ve done this) than someone that throws thousands of dollars at a tank and thinks that’s success. As long as we keep celebrating and equating spending big $$$$ with being a “real” reefer, people will be willing to pay for that status.
 

ADAM

My Torch can beat up your Torch!
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So true.... A year ago, 5.56 was less than $.30/rd. Last week a coworker of mine sold some reloaded .223 to another co-worker for $.80/round. People get worked up into a frenzy over whatever the latest hype is and common sense goes right out the window....

After the indo ban let up, every indo "gold" torch was a "Dragon Soul".
Now, they've discovered the "Holy Grail" and suddenly, dragon souls arent as common, but the $1k/head holy grails are everywhere. Supply and demand, add a little "indo ban" hype and a some good ol photo misrepresentation and we're left with outrageous prices for some fairly common goods.


And don't even get me started on toilet paper!
Exactly where are theses Holy Grails everywhere?
 
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SamMule

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Livestock for sale forum.
Used to see a thread with a HG once in awhile. Now, you see torches almost daily with the words "Holy Grail" attached
 

Pauley

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Lol, living in Orlando, I have several “major vendors” in the area. (I won’t name them, cuz they’re R2R sponsors, and I’m sure their money is worth more than my opinion). However, over the years I’ve seen them transition from cool hobbyists to greedy mega-vendors. The prices have absolutely skyrocketed, because people are willing to pay them. It’s not that their costs have skyrocketed - it’s that they‘re constantly expanding their operations, and paying for it by overcharging customers. They’ll mark up corals, give customers a 20% discount to make the sale, and still turn a crazy profit. Basically, it’s an aquatic used car lot.

Ultimately, it is supply and demand. They can only charge what people will pay. If they misrepresent corals, word would get out, and people would be informed as to the risk. Theoretically, that should hurt them long term. However, so many hobbyists (new or otherwise) continue to pay big prices, so I don’t think it hurts them. Personally, I’d rather buy from a fellow hobbyist than give my money to support these sell out companies, but that’s just my opinion. Obviously I’m in the minority, looking at industry prices.
 

ADAM

My Torch can beat up your Torch!
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Lol nothing special about a torch coral? I was at the west coast coral show this weekend and there were 20 vendors there with every coral under the sun. But you know what booth stole the show? The vendor who had the high end torches. I walked around and looked at everything there and nothing even compared to the torches. Nothing. No filters or anything, they were the most beautiful corals there with your own eyes. I do agree there is color manipulation going on and price gouging forusre around here. Also I have some 50 dollar torches next to some $500 dollar torches and they are not even remotely close to one another.
1. They won’t understand.... they’re using the most aggressive examples to plead their case. I lost faith in this thread when they used pics from extreme corals as a representation of what the average seller is using for a sales photo.

2. Let us not forget that ASD Holy Grails were not $1000.00 when they were named that originally.
3. You can take a “Holy Grail” and turn it all green with poor lighting and/or poor water chemistry, however you cannot take a fairly standard green torch and make it a “Holy Grail”. Nor can one take any vibrant green and make it gold/yellow in any form of a realistic looking picture to the point anyone, even the newest newb, would/ should be fooled.
4. If your lighting and water quality cannot support the colors than that is not a problem of the seller.
5. Whoever is taking about Octo, Frog, Hammer, Frammer, etc... should educate themselves a little more before claiming others are trying to rip people off. There are plenty of articles about Euphyllia subspecies cross breeding, Frammer is not a “new” term made up by someone who was trying to make a quick buck. Reference to 2013 Reefbuilders Article where cross euphyllia specimens are mentioned. https://reefbuilders.com/2013/10/29/gold-euphyllia/


Yes there are numerous people trying to mislead people at any given point over any given item and most of the time it’s the popular coral of the time. A few years ago it was Ananthestrea and Micromussa, however saying there is not a true genetic difference in one torch or another is blasphemy. For reference my Indo Pink tip green torches grow new heads 10x faster than my Indo gold variants, which those Indo Golds grow new heads 10x faster than my “grails”... err go some price difference. People want them and they grow far slower in 99% of systems so many will equate a value on care given to raise each head. Why does a basic red discoma cost $19 when a jawbreaker cost $150? Both “shrooms”....the speed of growth.

P.S. The purple torch would be about 119.00 at the popular bigger vendor and likely 59.00-69.00 everywhere else.
 
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Revnobody

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As a graphic designer by trade, I find it disgusting that vendors misrepresent corals with the use of lightroom and photoshop. However, I do find color correcting to compensate for blue lighting to be acceptable.

As for the prices, there are many reasons that people will pay a premium for corals. For instance, I pay a little more to buy from JF. Not because of the over-enhanced photos, but because his shop is close by and the corals are less stressed during shipping. As a bonus, I have never received any pests from his shipments. So for me, it is worth paying a little more.
 

OrangeCountyReefer

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1. They won’t understand.... they’re using the most aggressive examples to plead their case. I lost faith in this thread when they used pics from extreme corals as a representation of what the average seller is using for a sales photo.

2. Let us not forget that ASD Holy Grails were not $1000.00 when they were named that originally.
3. You can take a “Holy Grail” and turn it all green with poor lighting and/or poor water chemistry, however you cannot take a fairly standard green torch and make it a “Holy Grail”. Nor can one take any vibrant green and make it gold/yellow in any form of a realistic looking picture to the point anyone, even the newest newb, would/ should be fooled.
4. If your lighting and water quality cannot support the colors than that is not a problem of the seller.
5. Whoever is taking about Octo, Frog, Hammer, Frammer, etc... should educate themselves a little more before claiming others are trying to rip people off. There are plenty of articles about Euphyllia subspecies cross breeding, Frammer is not a “new” term made up by someone who was trying to make a quick buck. Reference to 2013 Reefbuilders Article where cross euphyllia specimens are mentioned. https://reefbuilders.com/2013/10/29/gold-euphyllia/


Yes there are numerous people trying to mislead people at any given point over any given item and most of the time it’s the popular coral of the time. A few years ago it was Ananthestrea and Micromussa, however saying there is not a true genetic difference in one torch or another is blasphemy. For reference my Indo Pink tip green torches grow new heads 10x faster than my Indo gold variants, which those Indo Golds grow new heads 10x faster than my “grails”... err go some price difference. People want them and they grow far slower in 99% of systems so many will equate a value on care given to raise each head. Why does a basic red discoma cost $19 when a jawbreaker cost $150? Both “shrooms”....the speed of growth.

P.S. The purple torch would be about 119.00 at the popular bigger vendor and likely 59.00-69.00 everywhere else.
AK Reefs that you???
 
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