These lights are done for good....or are they?

[Mark Gray]

I loved them in the winter hated them in the summer. I can do close enough with LEDs

 

[tenten900]

I'm a pretty new reefer with only around 2-3 years in the hobby and only tried t5, leds, and t5/led hybrid. My tank right now is on 2 g5 blues and I love the pop it gives but I would really love to try running metal halide on my next tank as I heard that they're amazing for sps growth.

 

[Weller]

Are T5s making a comeback?
I'd like to think so, no profit margin in it so I'd never had it pushed on me. I've just bought the max 250. Come with built in T5s; I'll be continuing them. I'm looking at the idea of hybriding in my black box, but until then t5 all the way!

 

[Perry]

Been using t5 since the t5/ halide debate. Back then, t5 stand alone more than lit my 75 gallon all out sps tank. Colors were also on point, and without pics, many devout halide users challenged effectiveness. A few years later, t5 began to take off here in the states. I have used them pretty much since. To me, t5 supplemented with sb reefbar blue, seems to me the nicest combo I have tried. My issue, other than coverage, is the ability to change spectrum or intensity at will, this is too much control for a tinkerer like myself. Suspend an ati/ supplemental led, set the height, and call it a day. I can't burn corals this way

 

[Shanel]

This brings back memories. I this there is still use for MH and T5 but have been running LED's for years now. This was a homemade stand for my 40g breeder with MH and T5's back in 2006. Blast from the past.

 

[Cabinetman]

I’ve had all three and my conclusion is that halides will eventually go away just because new refers just havnt seen what they are capable of and get caught up in the pretty blue that LEDs put off. My first big tank had 4 250 hslides with Phoenix 14 K bulbs. I’ve never had a tank do so well. Euphillia grew like crazy and within a year it was stuffed with big colonies. I didn’t test anything back then. No skimmer only an algae scrubber. I used to dump kalk in every few days not testing anything. I’ve had many tanks since that I’ve had t5 over and LEDs but no tank has done as well. I know if I get the opportunity to buy some halide gear used I’m jumping back on the wagon. Not sure where I read it but someone on here put it this way..other lights will grow coral but you better make sure you got all your stuff right or you’ll fail. With halides you could grow coral. In a 5 gallon bucket and almost can’t kill it. For that reason I think it’ll take a good long time for them to disappear. I think there’s still a fair number of users left still.

 

[WVNed]

A Radion XR30 is recommended to light a 24x24 inch space and is 215 watts. I am doing it with a 250 watt MH and T-5s. I took the overlap out so I am running 250w 8 hours and 104 watts 4 hours over each 2 feet of an 8 foot tank.

The Radions costs $839 and I would need 4 so $3356 to light my tank.

Both of my 4 foot Hamilton fixtures cost me $1600. Bulbs are about $240 when I have to replace them.

I also have 900 watts of heaters that only come on overnight. If thry came on for 1 hour during the daytime that would eliminate any energy saving from the Radions.


I do not believe the current generation of LEDs are MH killers for large tanks. The next ones very well may be though.
The next generation of lights like a Photon V2 or AP9x will do it I think. I strongly considered 2 Photon V2s over my tank. The AP9X wasen't here yet. I have a Photon V2 on a 75 gallon tank now. I wasn't sure it would be powerful enough until I saw the BRS video. By then my 240 was already running.

I always wanted a tank lit by MH and when I built my system the math made it seem like a wash, so I did it.
I am not sorry.

 

[ReefRxSWFL]

T-5 & LED are still some of the best for color and coverage.
MH, they do a great job but it comes at a price, heat and power consumption.
T-5s solo are what LEDs strive to be. “The gold standard”
LEDs offer controllability.
Lets be honest manufactures push the latest and greatest.. that’s because that’s what they are making. So we get bomb barded to get the cool new thing. That’s LEDs. Also profit margins dictate what manufactures and stores push..

They all work and work well.

Preach!

 

[brett_schn]

Currently running t5s on my 40b. Going to do t5 hybrid in order to do a longer photoperiod and moonlight phase on the next tank.
edit I’m on my 3rd year of reefing previously using an ai prime on my past 10g.

 

[Timfish]

Since there are distinct differences in a coral grown under the different lighting technologies I wouldn't be surprised if future research into what best for a coral over it's life expectancy focuses in one specific technology.

Contrasting Light Spectra Constrain the Macro and Microstructures of Scleractinian Corals

The morphological plasticity of scleractinian corals can be influenced by numerous factors in their natural environment. However, it is difficult to identify in situ the relative influence of a single biotic or abiotic factor, due to potential interactions ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[MnFish1]

1. Have you ever used Metal Halide and T5 Lighting on a reef tank?

YES

2. Do you currently have a tank running MH or T5 lights?

NO

3. Do you remember the discussion about LED and about how there wasn't proof that they would work?

Yes - I voted MH/T5 aren't needed - but - as you said - many people have them and use them. I find that my Radions (G5 Pro) - work as well - or better than when I used metal halides and Fluorescents.

 

[MnFish1]

Old school and old too, lol.
The one issue I see with led's and its fairly common is the constant changing of light levels with people hoping it changes other problems they have with their tank

I was guilty of it with my black boxes.

I just use the presets that come with the radions. But - I'm probably in the minority - I do not care for the 'blue fluorescent look' - that said - I also do not care for the metal halide look either - (too yellow tinted) - to me.

 

[Seamore2001]

The arguments for LED are pretty compelling in terms of controlability, lower energy usage and no need to replace bulbs.

That said, I love MH (currently running three tanks with MH on each) and find the mix of MH + T5 to give a really good mix of coverage, color and drive great growth for my SPS. I also appreciate the ability to adjust light colors to my particular liking by choosing different bulbs - there's lots of good choices for different colors for both MH and T5.

I'll continue to stick with MH even though I see a role for LEDs and expect them to continue to improve over time.

Once nice thing about the transition to LED in the hobby is that plenty of nice MH fixtures come available on the used market. Beyond the excellent coral growth that I get from MH, I can buy used MH fixtures that blast more light than LED at a fraction of the price of a new LED fixture. I could essentially buy, use and throw away multiple MH+T5 fixtures for five or six years for the price of a single LED system that would deliver equivalent light / coverage.

 

[MnFish1]

Power savings of LED’s? 300 watts is 300 watts regardless of if it’s LED, halide, or T5.

Correct - but - who says that you need 300 watts of LED - and 300 watts of MH. For example - I have read several people using 400 watt halide bulbs - the new Radion G5XR30 Pro uses 205 watts (according to my reading). So - that would save energy - secondly - most people ramp up their LED's - i.e. they are not at max power all day long - if you run MH lights - they go on and they go off. They are always using peak wattage - right?

 

[MnFish1]

I'd settle for someone still using their original LED for say 7 years and any repairs they might of had to do, if any.
It's not the bulbs reliability I'm questioning.
It's the unit as a whole. Most of these are like 90% of everything else sold today.
Made in China. Or the parts are from there. If I'm going to pay $500-$900 for a single light
I want it to be trouble free for many years.
The fact remains we don't know how long these units last. Because no one keeps them long enough to know. We do have a good idea how long MH & t5s and ballasts ect. last.
I've read post on here where users have had there MH for decades and they are still working. Please don't ask me for a link lol.
And I'm not questioning the viability of LEDs. I know they grow corals very well.
I guess I'm arguing the total cost to run each. There is no way to know when we don't know how long LED units last. (not bulbs)

I had my 2 G4 XR 30's for I believe 3.5 years. I had to replace a fan (easy) - because I stuck my finger into the hole to dislodge some salt creep. I wanted the G5 XR40 pros - due to having the fan on top - I sold my 2 G4's on Ebay - for around 900 total - and bought 2 of the G5's - have had no issues.

 

[MnFish1]

Of course they make exceptions - don't let the fact that they always have, and still do, matter at all. Babies under incandescent lamps in ICU have to die? No more medical treatments? Animals at zoos have to die too? (sense the hyperbole) Specialty lighting is a drop in the bucket of general lighting. Besides, the best thing that BRS is good at is to convince hobbyists that they are looking out for you more than themselves - if you are not taking what they say with a grain of salt, then I suggest that you do. I have no doubt that some LED vendor told him that, but they also have said that corals are collected from areas where only blue light penetrates even though it is nearly impossible to get there with scuba and without a James Cameron submarine - they are looking out for their own best interests. These laws always have been and, even to this day, for general lighting ONLY.

Metal Halide Lighting Soon to be phased out •Orphek

Orphek answered their plea for energy savings by designing LED lighting systems capable of penetrating deep tanks ...

orphek.com

 

[oreo54]

Correct - but - who says that you need 300 watts of LED - and 300 watts of MH. For example - I have read several people using 400 watt halide bulbs - the new Radion G5XR30 Pro uses 205 watts (according to my reading). So - that would save energy - secondly - most people ramp up their LED's - i.e. they are not at max power all day long - if you run MH lights - they go on and they go off. They are always using peak wattage - right?

Actually efficiency matters.
And so does delivery

MH's in a visual sense can produce about 90 lumens/watt.
Current led's can output UP to about 180 L/watt

Add the fact that less photons are "lost" w/ leds because of scattering and reabsorption w/ mh/t5 watts are not exactly watts...

The "curse" of led us also its strength.

 

[MnFish1]

Actually efficiency matters.
And so does delivery

MH's in a visual sense can produce about 90 lumens/watt.
Current led's can output UP to about 180 L/watt

Add the fact that less photons are "lost" w/ leds because of scattering and reabsorption w/ mh/t5 watts are not exactly watts...

The "curse" of led us also its strength.

That was kind of my point. The funny thing - is that If you took a poll (and I think I will start one) - my guess is that many people do not run their LED's at '100%' - much if any of the day.

 

[block134]

I think it is done for. This what I came home to last night. I still dont know how it ended up in the tank. Nothing is broke in regards to the mounting hardware. The fish and corals seem fine as well so far.

It is kind of hard to see but it is an 8 bulb T5 partially submerged in the tank.

 

[MnFish1]

I think it is done for. This what I came home to last night. I still dont know how it ended up in the tank. Nothing is broke in regards to the mounting hardware. The fish and corals seem fine as well so far.

It is kind of hard to see but it is an 8 bulb T5 partially submerged in the tank.

VERY sorry to see that.