Thinking Outside the Box

[saltyfilmfolks]

Salty, I was also dumped on the street. I ETSed (got out of the Army) in Cambodia. They flew me to McGuire Air Force Base in Jersey about 100 miles from my house and left me there in the middle of the night with not a cent on me. They did however give me a subway token even though there are no subways in New Jersey. I was still dirty from the jungle. If my girlfriend (who is now my wife) Mother and Brother didn't pick me up, I would have had to hitch hike home. My wife filled out my discharge papers because no one was up.
The next day I was sitting in my house with the TV on, looking around and I couldn't believe it. I didn't get a thank you, have a nice day, sorry to see you go, drop dead, nothing.

yup. And we were from an era where if you didnt figure it out ya died. and every kid used scissors in school, and if you drove a car ya need to change a tire.
That's not what folks do today. WE watch television. When the tv breaks or ya get a flat ya call someone. what the program here is doing is teaching the poor kids how to fend for themselves. prob for the firs time ever.
If we had more factory jobs or making stuff jobs or any jobs at all wed prob have less PTSD and depression. I men lets get way out the box. folks forget, during the the great depression countless died of alcohol. Jobs and purpose cured that Ill.

 

[dbl]

...The next day I was sitting in my house with the TV on, looking around and I couldn't believe it. I didn't get a thank you, have a nice day, sorry to see you go, drop dead, nothing.

Not outside the box, but Paul, after all of these years, and I realize this doesn't make up for squat, I will say THANK YOU for your service.

 

[Brew12]

Salty, I was also dumped on the street. I ETSed (got out of the Army) in Cambodia. They flew me to McGuire Air Force Base in Jersey about 100 miles from my house and left me there in the middle of the night with not a cent on me. They did however give me a subway token even though there are no subways in New Jersey. I was still dirty from the jungle. If my girlfriend (who is now my wife) Mother and Brother didn't pick me up, I would have had to hitch hike home. My wife filled out my discharge papers because no one was up.
The next day I was sitting in my house with the TV on, looking around and I couldn't believe it. I didn't get a thank you, have a nice day, sorry to see you go, drop dead, nothing.

We really did our Vietnam vets wrong in so many ways.
I'm not sure anyone who hasn't been in the military can understand what it is like to just walk away one day. It is confusing and challenging even under the best of circumstances. And vets like you were kicked to the curb under about the worst of circumstances. For me? I was doing my job 2 days before I got out. My last full day was spent turning stuff in and checking out. The next day I went to a remote office 45 miles from my base to complete my discharge paperwork. I was handed my DD214 and for the first time in over 10 years I had no where I was supposed to be. No one to check in out with. Just this sinking feeling that I hadn't done something right when I checked out and that it would come back to bite me, but no one to verify it with. I don't know anyone I served with that didn't have nightmares about being back in the service. It's such a reality altering and instantaneous event that the human mind struggles to adjust.
And again, we got out in a time of relative peace. I did have friends that got out from combat units that struggled with it even more. Fortunately, they are always improving the system. They are offering transition classes. They now have hotlines to call if you have questions. It's just too bad the trauma military discharges cause wasn't recognized earlier and more done to help those making the transition.

 

[Paul B]

How can we help boost our fish/s immune systems? I imagine feeding the live foods you describe (fresh live clams, mussels, black worms, brine) helps. What else can we do sir Paul the Wise?

It is the bacteria in the foods that is the most important. Of course feeding clams and mussels are so much better than sterile flakes and pellets. I don't even consider those dry things food and would never use them.
The fish need live bacteria and they need it as often as possible. In the sea, fish eat fish. Live fish with everything in the prey fish and everything in their intestines which is mostly bacteria "and" parasites. All fish in the sea have some parasites, I don't know how many because I never counted them, but they all have parasites. Those are needed all the time to get into our fish so their immune systems recognizes the threat and keeps making antibodies against them. If you use the quarantine system, I would not feed live or fresh seafood because those fish won't have much of an immune system. If you quarantine You could however feed commercially available foods that are irradiated to kill such things.
It would be a little difficult to switch over from a quarantined system to a natural system where we want to keep the fish immune. It is better to get the fish from the sea, as they come into the LFS because those fish, although weak still have a functioning immune system because they were in the se last week. We need to take those fish and immediately get some fresh food into them with bacteria such as clams or worms. The key is to get the fish into great shape as well as keep up their immune system. You can of course place the fish in a quarantine or hospital tank but it should be decorated with rocks or natural looking things the fish will recognize and not PVC. Fish never see white PVC until they croak and we flush them. Most fish are scared of anything pure white, shiny, smooth and new looking. Throw a 3" PVC elbow into your reef and I bet your fish hide and stay far from it. try it.
Don't medicate with anything unless the fish is obviously going to die in ten minutes and it is receiving last rites. You shouldn't have bought that fish anyway. I get fish like that a lot because the store owner knows it will croak and I get it for free.
Don't leave it in that smaller tank for more than a week or so unless you have to because your cat is sick and you need to take it to the Vet or a Supermodel just got stuck outside your house and she wants you to drive her 500 miles to her photo shoot.
See the small baby fish to the left of that sleepy nurse shark. Those are an all you can eat fish buffet and what fish eat all day long. See the parasites on those fry? Squint, maybe you will see them. That is what fish need. Fresh seafood with bacteria and parasites. Don't wake up the nurse shark.

 

[Paul B]

Thank you David.
Thank you too Brew.
At least I stayed immune for that year with all the mud and live bugs I ate.

 

[Paul B]

My last full day was spent turning stuff in and checking out. The next day I went to a remote office 45 miles from my base to complete my discharge paperwork. I was handed my DD214 and for the first time in over 10 years I had no where I was supposed to be.
.

My last day I spent in the mud on an LZ in a clearing in the jungle like every other day. I finished my C Ration breakfast and got on a LOH helicopter with a friend of mine pilot.
He grabbed a bottle of Wild Turkey Burbon and we flew off. First we saw a little kid on a Vespa motorbike so he flew about 3' off the dirt road to scare the kid. He scared me more. Then we saw a logging truck so we flew 5' over the "road" seemingly right into the, place the windshield would be if it had a windshield. There were Vietnamese all over the logs and they jumped off as we zipped over them a couple of feet. Then we saw a bridge so he had to fly under it. The bridge was only about 20' high. It's a good thing we didn't have any underwear or I would have had to change them. Then, thank God we got to a place where I could get on a larger chopper and leave that maniac who thought this was cool. I got on the Huey and flew a long while to a place where there was a temporary runway for a plane. I got on the plane and it was one of those things where the rear of the plane stays open and you have to tie yourself in with a rope. They fly just over treetop level but it was better than that LOH.
I got to the air force base and gave in my weapons. I found a French Bayonet in the Jungle but they wouldn't let me take it home. I had to take off all my chothes and walk through this little hall naked. I got clean clothes on the other side and saw this TWA plane and was astonished to see it. The TWA was painted on the tail in orange and I thought there was lights in it. I realized I did not see the color orange the entire year and it looked very garish to me as all I ever saw was green. Everything in Nam was green from the ammo, to the guns, to the C rations, the food, clothes, everything. The plane ride was 24 hours and we got bologna sandwiches for the 3 meals on white bread with nothing on them. We had no music, no movie, no reading materials, no nothing. We landed in Japan and Alaska before New Jersey. I got off the plane, laid on the ground and kissed it.
That's how I spent my last day in the army.
This is me in that LOH


This is a typical LZ. Those are not tents, we didn't have tents, those were poncho's.
You can see a Cobra Gunship strafing the bushes in the rear


Here it is from the air

 

[Brew12]

My last day I spent in the mud on an LZ in a clearing in the jungle like every other day. I finished my C Ration breakfast and got on a LOH helicopter with a friend of mine pilot.
He grabbed a bottle of Wild Turkey Burbon and we flew off. First we saw a little kid on a Vespa motorbike so he flew about 3' off the dirt road to scare the kid. He scared me more. Then we saw a logging truck so we flew 5' over the "road" seemingly right into the, place the windshield would be if it had a windshield. There were Vietnamese all over the logs and they jumped off as we zipped over them a couple of feet. Then we saw a bridge so he had to fly under it. The bridge was only about 20' high. It's a good thing we didn't have any underwear or I would have had to change them. Then, thank God we got to a place where I could get on a larger chopper and leave that maniac who thought this was cool. I got on the Huey and flew a long while to a place where there was a temporary runway for a plane. I got on the plane and it was one of those things where the rear of the plane stays open and you have to tie yourself in with a rope. They fly just over treetop level but it was better than that LOH.
I got to the air force base and gave in my weapons. I found a French Bayonet in the Jungle but they wouldn't let me take it home. I had to take off all my chothes and walk through this little hall naked. I got clean clothes on the other side and saw this TWA plane and was astonished to see it. The TWA was painted on the tail in orange and I thought there was lights in it. I realized I did not see the color orange the entire year and it looked very garish to me as all I ever saw was green. Everything in Nam was green from the ammo, to the guns, to the C rations, the food, clothes, everything. The plane ride was 24 hours and we got bologna sandwiches for the 3 meals on white bread with nothing on them. We had no music, no movie, no reading materials, no nothing. We landed in Japan and Alaska before New Jersey. I got off the plane, laid on the ground and kissed it.
That's how I spent my last day in the army.
This is me in that LOH

I'm glad he was a good pilot! Would have been a shame to miss out on all you have done to help further this hobby (not to mention your work as Santa) because of a collision with a logging truck! And what would those poor supermodels have done without you?
Wait.. if the supermodels wouldn't be able to hang around you, than they would have had to find other people to hang around with.. hmmm...

 

[Paul B]

I think the Wild Turkey helped a lot.

 

[dburkart]

Paul,

Please continue your writing and staying out of the box, it is most informative. Thank you for your service both in Nam and here on R2R.

Dave

 

[Paul B]

I don't know what to write about, I got Supermodels, wars, fish tanks, steampunk lights, broken shoulder etc.

 

[Paul B]

yup. And we were from an era where if you didnt figure it out ya died. and every kid used scissors in school, and if you drove a car ya need to change a tire.
That's not what folks do today. WE watch television. When the tv breaks or ya get a flat ya call someone. what the program here is doing is teaching the poor kids how to fend for themselves. prob for the firs time ever.
If we had more factory jobs or making stuff jobs or any jobs at all wed prob have less PTSD and depression. I men lets get way out the box. folks forget, during the the great depression countless died of alcohol. Jobs and purpose cured that Ill.

Salty you are so correct. My Dad died suddenly when I was 10. At 12 my neighbor gave me a job in his junk yard cutting parts out of cars with an acetylene torch. Try that today with a 12 year old. I worked there for 2 years for $10.00 for 12 hours which was great money. Then on Friday nights I would clean a sea food market for another ten bucks. That was a fortune in 1960. I bought my first car for eight bucks. It was a Chevy Impala and it didn't run. I put a carb rebuild kit on it for another 8 bucks and sold it for $150.00 or so. The I bought a Simca (French Car) for a few bucks and quadrupled my money in a week and it went on from there. I always made money, never took anything from anyone and never will. Money is all over the place if you have a little talent and are not lazy.
When it snowed I shoveled snow.
I bought this Willy's Jeep for $700.00 way before anyone had 4 wheel drive. It snowed 18" once and I plowed from my house to the Chrysler building where I was working as an apprentice electrician bringing home $52.00 a week. You read that right. That day I made $1,800.00 plowing snow. That is I don't know how many months salary. I believe if you can work, and you don't want to. they should build more cemetaries because I don't want to feed your lazy you know what.

 

[Paul B]

I went to the guy who operated on my shoulder this morning. I went into the small room they put you in before they see you and the physicians helper Supermodel checked out my shoulder. Then the Dr. came in and everything is great. I can even go swimming, as long as I don't do the crawl stroke. I can do that side thing where I will look like I can swim like an algae bleenie.
In a few months, I will be as good as new.
Today I am working on my new Steampunk Lamp. This one has a gate valve that turns it on and off, very cool if I ever finish it.

I went to an LFS after the doctor to see if they had any more porcelain crabs but they didn't get them in yet. I love those things and want a bunch more. I couldn't buy any crabs so I got some food.
I didn't change water since before Thanksgiving and it will take a few more weeks before I do. I am not allowed to lift heavy stuff yet. My fish don't care because even if I didn't have shoulder surgery, I probably would not have changed water yet.
Everything in my tank is looking good and they are all still pregnant. Those Bluestripe pipefish seem to just constantly spawn which is OK with me.
One of my Bangai's died a while ago from old age (their lifespan is only about 3 years) and I thought the other one would go soon, but he must have found some vitamins because he looks better than ever. When he goes I want to get another pair of something but I can't decide what that will be. I don't do tangs and angels because I want something interesting, odd, unusual, rare and cool. I also want something that can spawn in a tank.
If you have any ideas, let me know.

 

[Paul B]

My gorgonians are growing into other gorgonians and taking over them like the invasion of the body snatchers. My large blue sponge is also taking over another gorgonian and now the gorg looks like a half breed sponge, gorg with another gorg growing on different parts of it. I guess they are all thinking outside the box. At some point I am going to have to stick my hand in there with a razor blade and cut these things apart or I am going to be left with one giant sponge/gorg, and a different gorg thing which may be scary looking or maybe a new species.

Im in a quandary with my tank. I want to do something to shake it up. of course I may crash the thing. I have been feeding yeast which is why I think the gorgs and sponges are growing so fast. I started taking the stuff myself but I am still bald and although I have been listening, no Supermodels have rung my door bell today. We do have almost a foot of snow outside but that should be OK for Supermodels because they wear those hip high boots with foot high, high heels so their ankles should not even touch the snow.

This Thursday I go to the VA to see if I have PTSD. I spent two hours with the Supermodel there. She asked me questions from the time when I was born. I was a little unclear about the bassinet days.
I don't think I have PTSD or anything else as I feel I came back better but I did have two friends, brothers actually who came back and killed themselves shortly after. They just couldn't adjust back to civilian life.
I know combat changes a person and I also know that it changes some people for the better, but unfortunately the majority of combat Veterans do have some problems and I know some of them.

 

[Paul B]

Yes I know, it's an old thread. It is early and I am waiting for my wife to get up so I will make breakfast for her and our best friend neighbors who we have been friends with for almost fifty years.

I moved my tank, and us 60 miles 3 months ago and followed my out of the box theories. I left my very old, scratched tank in the old house ,( the new people want Koi) and I bought a new 125 gallon tank for here. I transferred everything including the gravel and water and put it in my new home.

I had to add a lot of NSW because much of my old water was just mud from removing the 40+ year old reverse UG filter.

The tank went from 160 nitrates to about zero. There was almost no light, UG filter, gravel for a couple of weeks, the water was not filled up, half the rock was not in, no skimmer and the temperature was all over the place because I only had one 15 amp outlet to run the entire tank.

After a couple of weeks algae grew on everything and killed the tips on some of the coral. I took my own advice and didn't change water or add anything.
Eventually I put on the lights, heaters and circulation pumps but still don't have a sump or hydrometer.


After about 10 weeks the algae started to die off and now it is just about gone. I still have not changed the water and won't for a few more weeks.

The fish are again spawning and the corals look better than ever. I have not even dosed anything yet.

This tank is totally outside the box but every fish made the move perfectly and I have added about 4 or 5 more since I got here. Of course no quarantine and I expect the fish will all live to die of old age as they are not allowed to get sick and never will.

 

[showmebutterfly]

Good morning, Paul. I just read this entire thread and enjoyed it very much. I probably never would have seen it if you hadn't posted an update, so I am glad you did. Thank you for your service and thank you for sharing your fish keeping knowledge.

 

[Paul B]

Thank you Showmwbutterfly. It is an old thread but I still remembered it.

 

[hart24601]

I enjoy this old thread.

Interesting case of perspective. One could think since you have what might be the oldest reef tank in existence that you helped create the original box which you remained in, people moved outside that box, for better or worse, experimenting and seeing what can be done much like you did all those years ago.

Just food for thought.

 

[Paul B]

I don't think so. In those days we didn't have plastic so any boxes were made of wood and since I was the only one in it I had a cro bar and got myself out right away.
Look at this page from my Log book from 1974 and the medications I was using. They didn't have any medications for salt water fish and no information. I also didn't have a natural tank but I did use some NSW and mud. There was no live rock or even dead rock so the fish were very stressed. I used "people" medications after trying to figure out what was going on with my microscope. I still had pretty good luck or I wouldn't still be here. But that was a great way to learn. Not just looking on the Net and seeing what someone else who you don't know did.

 

[hart24601]

Not trying to take anything away from what you did and accomplished in this hobby of course, I have a lot of respect for you!

Just for a counter point though I encountered a system wide clam disease and attempted to treat them with sorts of medications and combinations however I just wrote it on my thread, not a notebook. Same with the process to treat nems which has been quite successful, which wasn't me of course but someone much smarter than me!

Wouldn't yours or others notes at some point become part of a book in those pre internet days? Fishkeeping books have been around for something like 150 years, not of course specifically for reefs, but it's not like information didn't get shared.

I saw this today and it made me laugh although at this point I relate more to the older person complaining!

 

[Paul B]

I do have many pages of my old Log Book someplace I think. I moved and can't find a lot of things. I am still looking for my camera's.
Here is a little photo story of the life of a pair of my gobies.

Here was my watchman gobi as a baby







I paired her up as a baby and here they are as adolescents a few years old.







Here they are as an old, out of shape married couple.







Here she is with one of her many broods of eggs.







And in a nursing home near the end of her life about 12 years later.