Thoughts on Hawaii Ban

[shred5]

Do you think Fiji, Australia, the Red Sea, Marshall Islands, East Africa, Indonesia and the Philippines will all eventually shut down?

Or maybe Hawaii will reopen in a couple of years?

There is always a chance. I thought Indonesia was done.

Fiji has shut down for most coral. I think they allow some soft coral export just not the USA.

I think eventually it is all gone. Rumor is talks from Australia is they thinking of shrinking exports as the GBR get worse.
Talk because of the lionfish the Caribbean areas may put stricter limits or eventually shut down. No one can predict the future but yea eventually it will all be gone it is just when and how fast. As price increases so does greed and poaching which leads to more deaths too.

Too me we need a slow shut down to allow ramping up of captive breeding programs. Having the rug pulled out leads to what we are seeing now and only hurts the hobby.
As usual this hobby is disorganized and some of those who have successfully able to captive raise fish wont share what has worked. Some places and people are sharing. Which is funny because their used to be a large group of breeders. That said we have came a long way in breeding different species but raising them in large quantities is different.

The hobby needs to do better and change their attitude. We need to do better collecting, in the supply channels, wholesalers, retailer etc. We need to be more organized or this will continue.

We need to stop looking at these animals both fish and corals as possessions. We need to care about what we keep and change the perception of what we do or these people have to much ammunition. They are animals after all. The perception of what the hobby is seems to get worse and worse. I was reading the comments the other day on a news article about the shut down and it was insane how people perceive the hobby. The people that want us shutdown use our posts here on the forums against us. Some have posted here, Facebook or even on YouTube videos.

 

[Zionas]

That is what I’ve been saying. We need to unite against these people that seek to prematurely end the trails of responsible hobbyists that DO care about their livestock. I feel all the attention given to our hobby should be given to helping out their fellow human beings on much more pressing issues. At this rate global warming will kill off our reefs, we might be the BEST hope at enduring survival of many of these species in some form.

 

[piranhaman00]

I am so happy they are doing this. Puts pressure on captive breeding, there will be more money in it! Also we need to save this planet and this hobby doesnt help it.

I think people need to understand that corals in the wild are going to be gone, and very soon .

 

[HuduVudu]

Do you think Fiji, Australia, the Red Sea, Marshall Islands, East Africa, Indonesia and the Philippines will all eventually shut down?

Or maybe Hawaii will reopen in a couple of years?

Yes

 

[rkpetersen]

I'm fine with it. Fish populations are under massive pressure everywhere. Sure, commercial fishing, pollution and degradation of habitat are the biggest factors, but those of you who don't think ornamental collecting has contributed significantly are just fooling yourselves. Here's one anecdote. My wife's family has a beach house on the Big Island, has owned it for almost 100 years now. There are scrapbooks there with old primitive underwater photos, from the beach right in front of the house. Literally thousands and thousands of yellow tangs, so abundant that they filled the entire frame. There's nowhere like that in Hawaii anymore.

Now add in the well-known horrendous loss of fish life that happens between collection and the final customer's tank. Some estimate as much as 90% of ornamentals die enroute. This is known to the public, and while hobbyists tend to shrug it off, this is just the kind of thing that enrages non-hobbyists and leads to calls to shut it all down. And honestly, I see their point.

 

[shred5]

I am so happy they are doing this. Puts pressure on captive breeding, there will be more money in it! Also we need to save this planet and this hobby doesnt help it.

I think people need to understand that corals in the wild are going to be gone, and very soon .

I disagree as long as it is manage right. It raises awareness and puts a economic value on the reef giving a reason to save it. Most people do not even understand the reef and do not care. They learn from us. More has been learned on breeding of fish and coral through the hobby than anywhere else. If it were not for the hobby would anyone even be able to breed yellow tangs?

Lots of money is raised through the hobby to help protect the reefs. Our reef club used to donate a portion of the money to reef restoration.

honestly if you feel that way I have a hard time understanding why you are even in the hobby then?

 

[shred5]

I'm fine with it. Fish populations are under massive pressure everywhere. Sure, commercial fishing, pollution and degradation of habitat are the biggest factors, but those of you who don't think ornamental collecting has contributed significantly are just fooling yourselves. Here's one anecdote. My wife's family has a beach house on the Big Island, has owned it for almost 100 years now. There are scrapbooks there with old primitive underwater photos, from the beach right in front of the house. Literally thousands and thousands of yellow tangs, so abundant that they filled the entire frame. There's nowhere like that in Hawaii anymore.

Now add in the well-known horrendous loss of fish life that happens between collection and the final customer's tank. Some estimate as much as 90% of ornamentals die enroute. This is known to the public, and while hobbyists tend to shrug it off, this is just the kind of thing that enrages non-hobbyists and leads to calls to shut it all down. And honestly, I see their point.

What is funny is that yellow tang population have increased based on studies in Hawaii .
Problem is close to shore there is more pollution and more activity now a days. The inshore reefs are getting destroyed. Hawaii is starting to be considered a polluted paradise. Has nothing to do with collection.

A friend of mine Henry Schultz who used to write articles on reef fish and now runs a scuba outfit in Cozumel. He had a theory on why tang populations are increasing. More nutrients in the ocean because of pollution leads to more algae and food for them.

I do agree we need to do better as a hobby though like I said in my previous post. Perception of the hobby is bad.

 

[rkpetersen]

Do you think Fiji, Australia, the Red Sea, Marshall Islands, East Africa, Indonesia and the Philippines will all eventually shut down?

Or maybe Hawaii will reopen in a couple of years?

No chance that Hawaii will ever reopen. Hawaiians in generally don't want their wonderful and often unique wildlife removed from the state, and the ornamental collection industry is far too small for anyone to really care what they want. And the opinions of people living outside the state of HI will matter even less.

And as the underwater environment continues to deteriorate, naturally more and more oceanic nations will try various things to stop it, with the easiest and mostly publicly supported measures, such as ornamental fishing bans, likeliest to be enacted first.

 

[rkpetersen]

What is funny is that yellow tang population have increased based on studies in Hawaii.

Compared to when? 1950s? Doubt it.

A slight uptick in numbers compared to more recent history when the populations were already drastically reduced due to unregulated massive overcollection is hardly going to impress anyone.

 

[rkpetersen]

honestly if you feel that way I have a hard time understanding why you are even in the hobby then?

This isn't a good way to discuss or argue. It's called an ad hominem attack, and it's weak weak weak.

 

[Zionas]

That’s so sad to hear. How many years do you think would be reasonable to expect until more places impose bans and eliminate our hobby?

 

[piranhaman00]

I disagree as long as it is manage right. It raises awareness and puts a economic value on the reef giving a reason to save it. Most people do not even understand the reef and do not care. They learn from us. More has been learned on breeding of fish and coral through the hobby than anywhere else. If it were not for the hobby would anyone even be able to breed yellow tangs?

Lots of money is raised through the hobby to help protect the reefs. Our reef club used to donate a portion of the money to reef restoration.

honestly if you feel that way I have a hard time understanding why you are even in the hobby then?

Who cares about breeding yellow tangs? Why is that necessary? There is no reason to breed yellow tangs before we started collected/killing them directly and indirectly (pollution ect.)

That’s so sad to hear. How many years do you think would be reasonable to expect until more places impose bans and eliminate our hobby?

The hobby wont be eliminated Just limited. We need to limit ourselves (as humans as opposed to just reefers) to ensure everything has a fair chance.

 

[gpd124]

I think the challenge here is recognizing that all of these perspectives bring valid points to the table. There is an additional challenge of how to reconcile these points to develop a path forward.

On one side, making this hobby the scapegoat will ignore the larger issue that exists, and that is the world’s reefs are shrinking at an alarming rate (which will ultimately affect the fish and inverts that populate the oceans). Our combined efforts should focus on increased studies, continued advocacy, and development of meaningful solutions. Unfortunately, this is where a great challenge exists, which is the number of countries involved and the number of factors negatively impacting reefs.

There is also the sad reality that the hobby can do better. There are collectors / businesses who may not have the most ethical practices. This impacts our ability to be good stewards of what remains. It also makes it easy for people to advocate for stricter limits or outright bans. If our hobby continues to dismiss this point outright, it will lead to continued export issues. We need to be part of the solution, even if the blame rests with so many.

In my mind, we have all been drawn to the beauty of reef keeping and it is important to do our level best to help advocate for change.

 

[Uncle99]

when the rest of the world, does what they do....how does the US's changes....change anything? Not trying to argue...just clue me in. because, if China/Japan etc...throws their stuff in the ocean, and we dont... it doesnt change anything, only kills the small businesses, not contributing to the mess.

IMM, that state is going in the right direction, but that, is simply in my opinion.
Any good business changes with the times, and our hobby, will do the same.
It forces us to evolve to a more sustainable future.

I’m not sure what your government does or does not do, or how good they are at protecting their environment. The US clearly has the wherewithal to lead the world to a better place for our children.

Ours have been excellent in the management of our waters and have penalized those dumpers with both exorbitant fines and jail time.

Changes always start with a leader, likely making unpopular decisions.

But, that’s just one voice, I’m sure there’s equal argument on both sides.

 

[gpd124]

I thought I would add - I don’t know how many active members there are on Reef2Reef, but looking at the stats, it appears there are 2,800 members currently viewing the forums.

As an example, if these 2,800 members would provide an average of $50 annually for research and advocacy (which by the way is a drop in the bucket compared to what we all spend on this hobby, even for the most budget conscious reefer), that would translate to more than $100k annually. I know in the grand scheme of things, this is probably a drop in the bucket, but it is an example of how people can work together to effect change.

 

[Manny’s Reef]

It would probably be helpful if someone created a list of affected fish. I apologize if someone already commented on this and I missed it. I'm skimming through the comments.

 

[shred5]

Compared to when? 1950s? Doubt it.

A slight uptick in numbers compared to more recent history when the populations were already drastically reduced due to unregulated massive overcollection is hardly going to impress anyone.

https://manoa.hawaii.edu/sealearning/sites/default/files/6_FISHLIFE_YellowTang.pdf

https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/dar/files/2015/01/ar_hrs188_2015.pdf

DLNR Report Shows Major Increase in Aquarium Fish Populations > Hawaii Free Press

 

[Oldreefer44]

Whether or not the Yellow Tang population is increasing or not, as far as I'm concerned there is no question that overall fish, as well as most other wildlife populations are dramatically decreasing. Overall wildlife extinctions are exponentially increasing every year. So if an agency happens to over correct then i am fine with it.
Having seen that decline over the decades of my life has been the cause of great sadness as I regret that my children and grandchildren will not be able to witness the wonders of nature that I have had the good fortune to see.
Fortunately the laws of supply and demand will eventually fill the void for those fish and inverts that become unavailable for collectors. However, just as has happened as a result of the pandemic, I fear that as time goes by the hobby will become less and less available to the average person because of the increased cost.

 

[Revnobody]

I went to my LFS today and he had 6-7 tanks full of Yellow Tangs. He said as soon as he heard about the ban he ordered all that his supplier had in stock. I was surprised to see that he hadn't raised the price.

 

[Brian_68]

And in a few years captive bred yellow tangs will be readily available. Bans like these encourage innovation which is a good thing for the long term health of the hobby. Just look at how many captive bred fish are available today compared to just a few years ago.