Thoughts on methods of eliminating water changes ?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm following along with this and just have a thought on the RODI water added by the ATO.

I have a 100 litre box of RODI which I need to top up every 2 weeks ish just to cope with evaporation. As this is adding pure water to the system could this count towards the water change amount in any way or is it just pure 100% water anyway that's evaporating so it just cancels itself out?
.

Just cancels out.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My point being that if the water in the tank stays pure enough I don't see a reason for water changes and I am sure there is a benefit for have a stable long term solution
.

I agree. But you are certainly not measuring everything. We can't.

 

[Fritzhamer]

Of course, greater concentration to lesser concentration! I hadn't thought about that. I also had no idea that elements such as iron were limiting at full NSW levels. How crazy. Thanks for sharing, that all makes sense.

 

[Big E]

Triton method is self fulfilling. They want you to use an algae filter.........guess what sucks up more trace elements than any corals. Do some research and you'll see the facts right in front of you.

Another flaw in the "method" thinking is that they don't account for what comes in from fish food in relation to trace elements, ect.
Fish pass 90% of what they take in.

Lastly, whose to say what and how fast these elements are being depleted........where's the data? Where are these depletion rates documented? On top of that, for most of the trace metals the testing is inaccurate and basically worthless.

It's funny to me that 10 years or so ago the research was all about old tank syndrome and accumulation of heavy metals as the cause. Now people want to dose metals for no apparent reason other than because someone wants to sell them to you backed by some questionable testing procedures.

 

[Donovan Joannes]

As someone starting out, what is it that you have to do that makes it definitely not easy?

Maintaining traces is one of the most difficult part for non WC, but introduction of impurities (via foods, air skimming or air scrubbing from skimmer usage and "hands in the water") is the key contributor to a failing tank. Unless you have all the test kit to measure, then you are down to a guessing games. After a couple of years looking at the same corals, you will learn along the way what to dose simply by looking at the specific corals. I believed all successful non-WC reefers out there has developed the ability to roughly guess what need to be dosed (traces and other supplement) by looking at certain corals that they owned for a very long time.

 

[scott cheek]

Oh I am sure we will and do have to add trace elements on a regular basis but just not by water changes

 

[scott cheek]

I am not saying I am right by any means

 

[scott cheek]

I tried all the refugiums ect nothing and I mean nothing worked with any real bioload like the sulphur reactor. If you want ten fish in a 180 gallon tank they do fine but the tank looks empty like that if you ask me

 

[Donovan Joannes]

We add traces (not only essential sea water elements) via feeding, hands in the water, top-off water and most importantly via skimmer

 

[Lasse]

Another flaw in the "method" thinking is that they don't account for what comes in from fish food in relation to trace elements, ect.
Fish pass 90% of what they take in.

Its not totally true - its true for us (warm-blooded) but not for poikilothermic animals like fishes. The conversion factor for them is higher. Around 20 – 30 % - of the imputed energy will be converted to biomass in average. More if they are young and fast growing – less if they are old and slow growing.

The rest of the energy can be transferred to bacteria biomass that can be taken up of the corals and other filter feeders.


Previously, I have been a warm friend of water change - 10-20% every week.

With my new aquarium I wanted to test if it could be sustainable without water changes – only use them if there was a treat against the wellbeing of my aquarium.

Therefore – the setup included many thing in order to make stable and ongoing – see my thread. The aquarium is 13 months old and I have don two 20 % water changes during this time. I have done 4 Triton test during this time. I have one issue that probably need a correction with a water change but I will wait to the next Triton test in order to see if it was a “**** happens” value or not.

The development of the Triton test (and other type of “total” tests) has make it possible to diminish the rate of water changes and get a very stable water IMO.



Sincerely Lasse

 

[jt17]

We usually notice something's wrong before we detect contaminants in our tanks. By then the damage is done. WC is a preventative to containment build up.
As for trace elements, WWC has been turning out beautiful corals for years with a 10% weekly WC of instant ocean. Not the reef crystals but the regular stuff.
IMO, consistency is the key. Corals want a stable environment. So if you do water changes then do them. The same volume at the same time interval with the same salt. If you don't do WC then don't. There are excellent examples of both methods.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

We add traces (not only essential sea water elements) via feeding, hands in the water, top-off water and most importantly via skimmer

You think a skimmer adds trace elements? It certainly removes them in skimmate. You think traces of dust in the air add more elements than are removed?

 

[revhtree]

This is a great topic!

 

[Donovan Joannes]

You think a skimmer adds trace elements? It certainly removes them in skimmate. You think traces of dust in the air add more elements than are removed?

I am saying it adds other elements not commonly found on NSW, in other words it adds contaminants. With the amount of air being pulled and forcefully dissolved, I do believe it will add up overtime and eventually contaminate the water. It happened to me once . Air freshener, perfumes, smokes, cooking fumes etc. I am not a scientist, but some air borne contaminants do react with water and dissolved.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am saying it adds other elements not commonly found on NSW, in other words it adds contaminants. With the amount of air being pulled and forcefully dissolved, I do believe it will add up overtime and eventually contaminate the water. It happened to me once

What trace elements are you talking about? And how do you know it happened to you?

You don't mean organics, do you? I agree those can be a risk of skimming (pesticides, cooking odors, etc.), but those are not trace elements.

 

[Donovan Joannes]

What trace elements are you talking about? And how do you know it happened to you?

You don't mean organics, do you? I agree those can be a risk of skimming (pesticides, cooking odors, etc.), but those are not trace elements.

I am not saying trace elements commonly found in saltwater, what I mean is other elements such as what you have mentioned.

Living next to a large scale vegetable gardens where pesticide and weed killer sprays being applied had poisoned my tank once. I am using mosquito repellent on daily basis, so my skimmer only runs from midnight for few hours, but I am no longer runs it.

 

[tdileo]

My reccomendations are
- Light stocking and feeding
- Run carbon
- Great cleanup crew
- Wash hands well with only water or if you have it, reef soap, before working in the tank
I also reccomend your tank is running without any major changes for a good year before you go water change-less

 

[Sallstrom]

Like @Lasse we also run some coral tanks with no WC or very little WC(due to backwashing sand pressure filters or cleaning sand). With volumes from 4000L up to 26000L it's a lot of new saltwater that needs to be mixed and it's a lot of work doing the WC. So instead we regularly send water samples to Triton lab and adjust some of the parameters when needed. The tanks are not run exactly as the Triton method, we use calcium reactors in some, balling in some, calcium mixer in one. And we don't have room for algae refugiums in all the systems either. You could say every tank has its own method

For us, and most of the corals, this works fine and have been working for almost four years now.

/ David

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am not saying trace elements commonly found in saltwater, what I mean is other elements such as what you have mentioned.

Living next to a large scale vegetable gardens where pesticide and weed killer sprays being applied had poisoned my tank once. I am using mosquito repellent on daily basis, so my skimmer only runs from midnight for few hours, but I am no longer runs it.

OK, I understand what you mean now.

Just to be clear to everyone, an "element" has a very specific meaning, and a "trace element" is even more specific. Hydrogen and oxygen are elements, water (H2O) is not. Water is an inorganic molecule. No organic molecule is an element. That's what was confusing.

 

[Kayvon]

Does running activated carbon eliminate contaminants such as pesticides, smoke, etc?