Tiny- The Wallet Destroyer (1000G)
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OP
OP
Space behind as in no wall behind right? Yeah it's going to be against a wall with no fish room behind. Maybe I should have a foot or so gap so I can get in there if I need to?
Against the wall is just as good as 12 inches away... just visualize in your mind everywhere your hands and elbows are going to be and make sure you can get to all the plumbing. Most external boxes are not 48 inches tall... so the issue is being able to reach up to get at the bulkheads on the bottom of the overflow box from below. I think a sealed internal overflow box will be better in your situation. Make sure your stand allows for gaps big enough to get your fingers around those bulk head nuts too!
Devaji
5000 Club Member
I vote external if you want a shorter stand but still can reach to the back of the tank for maintenance. might be cheaper to a big 4' internal bix in the tank is not gonna be cheap. atho a fraction of what the tank is gonna run ya,
let us know what you go with.
let us know what you go with.
OP
OP
Alright, big update:
Changed the builder from AGE to LFS (sourced from Suncoast I believe) and glass to ACRYLIC.
Fun times right?
Anywho, sent off my idea for filtration... Anything you all think I should consider or forgot to add into the plan?
Basically, two external overflows on the back corners, draining to a sump with one side being dedicated to equipment (skimmer, reactors etc) and the other dedicated to a refugium, both feeding into a central return chamber. This is similar to a Melev Model F Sump.
For water circulation, I would like a 1.5" Sea Swirl on each return line in the middle of the aquarium. On each side, I plan on having 2 Gyre XF350s side-by-side along the top edge, 2 EcoTech MP60s about 2/3 of the way down the panel, one towards the front, the other towards the back, then a 3rd EcoTech smack in the middle of the side panel.
One question I had, was regarding a manifold on the equipment side of the sump. Should I ask for one? Is there a better way to plumb in additional equipment like a Calcium Reactor or UV Sterilizer? Where should I put the UV sterilizer?
Lastly, any thoughts on a bubble tower filled with live rock on each drain line into the sump in lieu of filter socks? I don't mind some "stuff" floating around in the water column, as it'll provide more food for micro-fauna in my mind. I'm okay with having to clean detritus out of the sump/bubble tower more often as a consequence.
Thoughts? Anything I missed or didn't take into account?
Changed the builder from AGE to LFS (sourced from Suncoast I believe) and glass to ACRYLIC.
Fun times right?
Anywho, sent off my idea for filtration... Anything you all think I should consider or forgot to add into the plan?
Basically, two external overflows on the back corners, draining to a sump with one side being dedicated to equipment (skimmer, reactors etc) and the other dedicated to a refugium, both feeding into a central return chamber. This is similar to a Melev Model F Sump.
For water circulation, I would like a 1.5" Sea Swirl on each return line in the middle of the aquarium. On each side, I plan on having 2 Gyre XF350s side-by-side along the top edge, 2 EcoTech MP60s about 2/3 of the way down the panel, one towards the front, the other towards the back, then a 3rd EcoTech smack in the middle of the side panel.
One question I had, was regarding a manifold on the equipment side of the sump. Should I ask for one? Is there a better way to plumb in additional equipment like a Calcium Reactor or UV Sterilizer? Where should I put the UV sterilizer?
Lastly, any thoughts on a bubble tower filled with live rock on each drain line into the sump in lieu of filter socks? I don't mind some "stuff" floating around in the water column, as it'll provide more food for micro-fauna in my mind. I'm okay with having to clean detritus out of the sump/bubble tower more often as a consequence.
Thoughts? Anything I missed or didn't take into account?
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Just remember if you have to snorkel to calculate for the displaced water by your body hanging in the tank. Otherwise the surge will hit your floor and furniture!
I built two 16' x 3' x 4' acrylic tanks for a customer and maintained them for over a year until I could hand off to a local fish store. I was able to walk across the top of the tanks for maintenance and used an assistant to help spot the areas needed for cleaning. I only got in the tanks as we built the live rock scape and the filled it. Never wanted to take the risk of actually swimming in the tanks so we used the over head cat walk approach. HQI metal halide lights at the time had ability to manually raise the lights for cleaning. You could not get the proper thickness of acrylic in the Northwest for these tanks today. 2" thick panels is what the engineering called for at the time so the water depth was actually 42" or so. 1.5"tops and bottom panels.
Just curious how thick was the face and end panels? And the top and bottom panels for the acrylic? I would not put a glass tank that size in my home....ever! Number one I can build any acrylic I want! #2 I have seen several glass tanks let go in front of me... (no I did not build them).
Awesome build you have going. Have you considered floor drains and catch basins just in case?
I built two 16' x 3' x 4' acrylic tanks for a customer and maintained them for over a year until I could hand off to a local fish store. I was able to walk across the top of the tanks for maintenance and used an assistant to help spot the areas needed for cleaning. I only got in the tanks as we built the live rock scape and the filled it. Never wanted to take the risk of actually swimming in the tanks so we used the over head cat walk approach. HQI metal halide lights at the time had ability to manually raise the lights for cleaning. You could not get the proper thickness of acrylic in the Northwest for these tanks today. 2" thick panels is what the engineering called for at the time so the water depth was actually 42" or so. 1.5"tops and bottom panels.
Just curious how thick was the face and end panels? And the top and bottom panels for the acrylic? I would not put a glass tank that size in my home....ever! Number one I can build any acrylic I want! #2 I have seen several glass tanks let go in front of me... (no I did not build them).
Awesome build you have going. Have you considered floor drains and catch basins just in case?
1. UV can be plumbed outside the sump, you will need a big one and might just have it lying down like a torpedo next to the sump for easy maintenance.
2. make sure to install anti siphon check valves on your returns. Also, like Lemon said - have a plan for the sump to suck up the water when your return pump goes off. If that involves dumping the water down a drain... make sure that you have a plan to replace that water quickly and safely.
3. yes... I would put a bubble trap on both sides of the return chamber of your sump
4. I like your thought process for mechanical filtration. There is another reefer that made a sand filter somehow to strain the water and clarify it... without actually removing stuff from the tank. Right now... with roller mats, my nitrates and phos are too low. I am diverting some of the flow to filter socks - and not changing them. I am not familiar with using a bubble tower (other than a skimmer).
5. Do you have room for a skimmer??
2. make sure to install anti siphon check valves on your returns. Also, like Lemon said - have a plan for the sump to suck up the water when your return pump goes off. If that involves dumping the water down a drain... make sure that you have a plan to replace that water quickly and safely.
3. yes... I would put a bubble trap on both sides of the return chamber of your sump
4. I like your thought process for mechanical filtration. There is another reefer that made a sand filter somehow to strain the water and clarify it... without actually removing stuff from the tank. Right now... with roller mats, my nitrates and phos are too low. I am diverting some of the flow to filter socks - and not changing them. I am not familiar with using a bubble tower (other than a skimmer).
5. Do you have room for a skimmer??
OP
OP
I have been eye-balling getting a portable/collapsible painting scaffold that I can wheel into the garage when not in use. I haven't figured out my lighting rig yet, but it will have to have some kind of lifting mechanism.
The panel thickness I believe is going to be 1.75" acrylic but I'm still waiting on the final CAD.
Luckily the floors are the polished concrete slab, so water damage would be minimal in a large spill to the floor. I was planning on putting a tray underneath the sump, not sure if its possible to put a drain in the floor since its the foundation slab.
ScubaFish802
Just keep swimming
OP
OP
OP
OP
Just go a couple feet more in each direction and buy a scuba tank
Oh good lord, that would 100% end in divorce.
1. UV can be plumbed outside the sump, you will need a big one and might just have it lying down like a torpedo next to the sump for easy maintenance.
There should be plenty of space to do that underneath or even to either side as it will be enclosed. Would it basically just need a feed pump from the sump and return line back to the sump return chamber?
Yes, that is all you need. Mine is 70 inches long, making sure you can pull the bulb out without making a mess is the tricky part.
2. make sure to install anti siphon check valves on your returns. Also, like Lemon said - have a plan for the sump to suck up the water when your return pump goes off. If that involves dumping the water down a drain... make sure that you have a plan to replace that water quickly and safely.
Maybe running a drain line outside would be best? I do not think I can put a drain in the floor since it is the concrete foundation slab.
A tray and drain outside to save the house is a good plan. Just don't rely on it to handle unattended pump shut downs or skimmer overflows. See the demise of Steve Weast's tank.
3. yes... I would put a bubble trap on both sides of the return chamber of your sump
I thought the bubble tower traps are supposed to go on your drain lines from the overflow?
I was talking about the baffles... you have a three baffle bubble trap between your refugium and the pump chamber in your sump... but just one baffle on the other side... between the equipment section of your sump and the pump chamber.
4. I like your thought process for mechanical filtration. There is another reefer that made a sand filter somehow to strain the water and clarify it... without actually removing stuff from the tank. Right now... with roller mats, my nitrates and phos are too low. I am diverting some of the flow to filter socks - and not changing them. I am not familiar with using a bubble tower (other than a skimmer).
Yes I figured a removable sleeve of rock rubble that has to be rinsed every now and again would be less maintenance than filter socks/roller mats if designed right.
5. Do you have room for a skimmer??
Yes, the plan is to install one of the big Reef Octopus skimmers.
There should be plenty of space to do that underneath or even to either side as it will be enclosed. Would it basically just need a feed pump from the sump and return line back to the sump return chamber?
Yes, that is all you need. Mine is 70 inches long, making sure you can pull the bulb out without making a mess is the tricky part.
2. make sure to install anti siphon check valves on your returns. Also, like Lemon said - have a plan for the sump to suck up the water when your return pump goes off. If that involves dumping the water down a drain... make sure that you have a plan to replace that water quickly and safely.
Maybe running a drain line outside would be best? I do not think I can put a drain in the floor since it is the concrete foundation slab.
A tray and drain outside to save the house is a good plan. Just don't rely on it to handle unattended pump shut downs or skimmer overflows. See the demise of Steve Weast's tank.
3. yes... I would put a bubble trap on both sides of the return chamber of your sump
I thought the bubble tower traps are supposed to go on your drain lines from the overflow?
I was talking about the baffles... you have a three baffle bubble trap between your refugium and the pump chamber in your sump... but just one baffle on the other side... between the equipment section of your sump and the pump chamber.
4. I like your thought process for mechanical filtration. There is another reefer that made a sand filter somehow to strain the water and clarify it... without actually removing stuff from the tank. Right now... with roller mats, my nitrates and phos are too low. I am diverting some of the flow to filter socks - and not changing them. I am not familiar with using a bubble tower (other than a skimmer).
Yes I figured a removable sleeve of rock rubble that has to be rinsed every now and again would be less maintenance than filter socks/roller mats if designed right.
5. Do you have room for a skimmer??
Yes, the plan is to install one of the big Reef Octopus skimmers.
BackToTheReef
Valuable Member
One thing I might add is how thick is your glass? When I was looking at thick acrylic for a 10' x 4' x 4' tank most maxed out at 1" and I was looking at 1.5" acrylic minimum and one source saying 2". Tried to read through and see if thickness was mentioned but didn't see it.
OP
OP
This will actually be acrylic panels with 1.5" or 1.75" in thickness, waiting on the CAD to be completed for final word.
OP
OP
Thank you for the input. When you say 'handle unattended pump shutdowns or skimmer overflows', you think a tray with a drain-line wouldn't be enough to handle that? Wouldn't you just need to make sure the line is wide enough to drain the water out more quickly than it could flow into the tray?
What would be worst case scenario with a dual return pump failure or a skimmer overflow as far as how much water the tray/drain would have to handle before the emergency drain stop kicks in on the overflow box do you think?
If you lose - say 25% - of your saltwater down the drain... you have to be prepared to replace it to get your tank back online again.
There was an amazing reef (Steve Weast), who lost a bunch of water due to a skimmer overflow. His emergency drain saved the house. But... being in a hurry to replace the lost water, he used tap water and dechlorinator instead of waiting a week to make that much RO/DI. Lost all his livestock.
Ideally, your sump will be able to suck up all of the water that back siphons, and your skimmer should have a ATO shutoff so that you never rely on drains to handle those problems. Since these are common occurrences, you will for sure want to be ready.
The drain should only be for something more catastrophic (are rare), like a bulkhead failure. In that case.... you don't care about the tank anymore... just saving the house.
There was an amazing reef (Steve Weast), who lost a bunch of water due to a skimmer overflow. His emergency drain saved the house. But... being in a hurry to replace the lost water, he used tap water and dechlorinator instead of waiting a week to make that much RO/DI. Lost all his livestock.
Ideally, your sump will be able to suck up all of the water that back siphons, and your skimmer should have a ATO shutoff so that you never rely on drains to handle those problems. Since these are common occurrences, you will for sure want to be ready.
The drain should only be for something more catastrophic (are rare), like a bulkhead failure. In that case.... you don't care about the tank anymore... just saving the house.
xionggotstyle
Valuable Member
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Updates on the build????
OP
OP
Hey y'all, big update. It's almost been a year, and after furloughs and job changes, this tank is finally back on track!!! Currently awaiting a new quote and then moving forward.
After a lot of thought on how I wanted this to be done, I'm going to go Closed Loop. It doesn't seem like there are a ton of other reefers on here with those types of systems, but due to the size of this system, I feel it will be the most practical for the amount of water movement I want.
Any help with designing the closed loop would be most appreciated!
More to come, stay tuned!
After a lot of thought on how I wanted this to be done, I'm going to go Closed Loop. It doesn't seem like there are a ton of other reefers on here with those types of systems, but due to the size of this system, I feel it will be the most practical for the amount of water movement I want.
Any help with designing the closed loop would be most appreciated!
More to come, stay tuned!
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