To treat prophylactically or not?

[loops123]

Hi all,

I recently lost a Purple Tang in QT, it was fine for 2 weeks, started flashing and then went downhill quick from there.
I started treating with PraziPro as soon as the symptoms showed, but clearly something wasn't done right or soon enough.

Reason why I'm considering treating prophylactically next time around. (The store is giving me a new fish at a discounted price).

If I were to go ahead with treatment...
Neither Copper Power or CoperSafe is available where I'm located; the best I can get is Cupramine or NT Labs Marine Anti Parasite.
Will both suffice?
Is a copper test kit absolutely needed? I can get a Salifert kit, no Hanna available.

Ref to the other thread where fish didn't make it.

Purple tang - stress spots/ich/something else

I think it finned out really quick. It was eating very well before the flashing started. I've been keeping a close eye on the salinity, so highly dount it. The flashing has stopped completely though. Ammonia is reading 0.05 on seachem badge. But not sure how much I trust it. Been like that...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[JumboShrimp]

Is it one of those bite-size Biota Purple Tangs? I one bought 3 old fashion glass fish bowls and makeshift plexiglass lids), about 10 cheap air stones and 20 feet of airline tubing cut into 2' lengths, and used the TTM (tank transfer method-- no meds.) I just stayed one-tank-ahead of myself with 100% water changes and bowl sterilization until the process was complete. The Tang went on to live a very happy life.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Is it one of those bite-size Biota Purple Tangs? I one bought 3 old fashion glass fish bowls and makeshift plexiglass lids), about 10 cheap air stones and 20 feet of airline tubing cut into 2' lengths, and used the TTM (tank transfer method-- no meds.) I just stayed one-tank-ahead of myself with 100% water changes and bowl sterilization until the process was complete. The Tang went on to live a very happy life.

You can use Cupramine and the Salifert test kit, but Cupramine is a bit harsher than coppersafe or copper power. I've not used the NT Labs product, but mixing copper and formalin is generally ill advised.

I would skip the TTM method all together. It truly only works for marine ich, Cryptocaryon. Both Amyloodinium (velvet) and flukes are able to pass through the process. The extra handling of moving the fish tank to tank is very stressful. In addition, people underestimate how fast ammonia levels rise in small containers. I stopped using TTM in the mid-1980's in favor of this process (modified since then):

Current Quarantine Protocol

2024 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed, proactive quarantine process can effectively eliminate these...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[JumboShrimp]

Touché. I currently use Jay's QT protocol above. Maybe I should have mentioned that. Lol.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Touché. I currently use Jay's QT protocol above. Maybe I should have mentioned that. Lol.

Not to be "that guy" but that saddleback Bfly looks pretty thin. Is it feeding well? Can you increase the number of times you are feeding it during the day?

 

[JumboShrimp]

Yes, he did in fact arrive with that slightly 'pinched' look, but I am happy to report he made it through QT (ate clams in there, too ), and is now in the DT with his buddies, with a voracious appetite! (He left the acclimation box after just one day-- no aggression from anyone.)

 

[W31Olds]

Loops, Seachem makes a Test Kit specifically for Cupramine and it looks pretty decent. You defiantly need one and if your LFS sells Seachem products they should be able to get that kit.

 

[loops123]

You can use Cupramine and the Salifert test kit, but Cupramine is a bit harsher than coppersafe or copper power. I've not used the NT Labs product, but mixing copper and formalin is generally ill advised.

I would skip the TTM method all together. It truly only works for marine ich, Cryptocaryon. Both Amyloodinium (velvet) and flukes are able to pass through the process. The extra handling of moving the fish tank to tank is very stressful. In addition, people underestimate how fast ammonia levels rise in small containers. I stopped using TTM in the mid-1980's in favor of this process (modified since then):

Current Quarantine Protocol

2024 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed, proactive quarantine process can effectively eliminate these...

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks, will skip on the NT Labs on, the formalin seems weird.

I'll be fetching the fish in 5 days. He's been at the LFS now for about 2 weeks (some small assurance?)

Would like to check if my plan is sound.

[Before]
Set up and add ceramic biomedia from the display sump.

[Day 1 - 2]
Observe and let him settle

[Day 3 - 7]
Gradually add Cupramine over 5 days.
I have a marked line on QT for exactly 55 liters = 1.38mL Cupramine @ 0.50 ppm
Double check with Salifert kit
Would it be okay to be a bit under e.g. 0.40–0.43 ppm, or isn't that therapeutic anymore? Opinions seem to differ.

[Day 7 - 20]
Observe, make sure it's eating.
Continue monitoring Ammonia badge, waterchange with the same ppm of cupramine
If it reacts badly to treatment and stops eating completely, how long should I wait before removing copper?

[Day 21]
After 14 days, transfer to 2nd QT and start with praziPro treatment

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks, will skip on the NT Labs on, the formalin seems weird.

I'll be fetching the fish in 5 days. He's been at the LFS now for about 2 weeks (some small assurance?)

Would like to check if my plan is sound.

[Before]
Set up and add ceramic biomedia from the display sump.

[Day 1 - 2]
Observe and let him settle

[Day 3 - 7]
Gradually add Cupramine over 5 days.
I have a marked line on QT for exactly 55 liters = 1.38mL Cupramine @ 0.50 ppm
Double check with Salifert kit
Would it be okay to be a bit under e.g. 0.40–0.43 ppm, or isn't that therapeutic anymore? Opinions seem to differ.

[Day 7 - 20]
Observe, make sure it's eating.
Continue monitoring Ammonia badge, waterchange with the same ppm of cupramine
If it reacts badly to treatment and stops eating completely, how long should I wait before removing copper?

[Day 21]
After 14 days, transfer to 2nd QT and start with praziPro treatment

Couple of things - it can take weeks/months to properly inoculate ceramic biomedia with nitrifying bacteria, it wasn’t clear in your timeline how long it would be in your DT sump. Don’t take five days to ramp up Cupramine, 48 hours is safer. You don’t want to give any protozoans a head start with a too slow of a ramp up.

 

[loops123]

Thanks, will skip on the NT Labs on, the formalin seems weird.

I'll be fetching the fish in 5 days. He's been at the LFS now for about 2 weeks (some small assurance?)

Would like to check if my plan is sound.

[Before]
Set up and add ceramic biomedia from the display sump.

[Day 1 - 2]
Observe and let him settle

[Day 3 - 7]
Gradually add Cupramine over 5 days.
I have a marked line on QT for exactly 55 liters = 1.38mL Cupramine @ 0.50 ppm
Double check with Salifert kit
Would it be okay to be a bit under e.g. 0.40–0.43 ppm, or isn't that therapeutic anymore? Opinions seem to differ.

[Day 7 - 20]
Observe, make sure it's eating.
Continue monitoring Ammonia badge, waterchange with the same ppm of cupramine
If it reacts badly to treatment and stops eating completely, how long should I wait before removing copper?

[Day 21]
After 14 days, transfer to 2nd QT and start with praziPro treatment

Couple of things - it can take weeks/months to properly inoculate ceramic biomedia with nitrifying bacteria, it wasn’t clear in your timeline how long it would be in your DT sump. Don’t take five days to ramp up Cupramine, 48 hours is safer. You don’t want to give any protozoans a head start with a too slow of a ramp up.

Ah, it's been in the sump for about a month. I figured it's long enough to possibly be beneficial, with the badge still being driving indicator for water changes.

Didn't realize a slow ramp would do that, I thought it would just be easier on the fish. Do they build up some kind of immunity? Will then rather follow the normal instructions, doing 2 doses over 2 days.