Trace Element Additives contain copper?

[smartwater101]

I was looking through some options for trace elements and noticed Tropic Marin PRO-CORAL K+ includes copper? I was under the impression any amount copper is deadly to inverts like shrimp and coral...

 

[DarkSky]

Some additives include trace amounts copper to kill off zooxanthellae and help color up SPS.

One that comes to mind is the zeovit program. Though I'd expect if this included copper, there are other nutrient additives that they make available as part of the program since they're killing off your coral's ability to photosynthesize.

 

[smartwater101]

since they're killing off your coral's ability to photosynthesize.

Wouldn't this stunt growth? Is this just for coloration, but at the cost of growth?

 

[DarkSky]

Wouldn't this stunt growth? Is this just for coloration, but at the cost of growth?

I don't think it does if you're supplying the coral the N, P and C they need from another source. I know the zeovit system has a ton of bottles of stuff you need to dose daily to feed the coral. I personally don't have any experience with the system aside from watching videos BRS had put out about it a year or so ago on their BRS 160.

 

[jent]

Some additives include trace amounts copper to kill off zooxanthellae and help color up SPS.

How confident are you in this, or can you site anything?

I don't know about the role of copper in corals, but in trace amounts it plays a notable role for terrestrial plants in photosynthesis and metobolic functions.

 

[DarkSky]

How confident are you in this, or can you site anything?

I don't know about the role of copper in corals, but in trace amounts it plays a big role for terrestrial plants in photosynthesis and metobolic functions.

Citation for elevated copper levels causing zooxanthellae expulsion from acropora - https://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/149/m149p163.pdf

Zeospur 2 is a copper based additive, from it's description:

It is possible with this product to influence the amount of zooxanthellae in the coral tissue. The coral itself has more energy for growth because the zooxanthellae density requires less energy. This is possible for acropora, anacropora and montipora. The reduction of zooxanthellae in the outer layers brings out the colors of the coral from deeper layers. ZEOspur2 is also able to influence colors. However, the primary color shown will be the color right below the layer with the zooxanthellae. It is possible to reduce the amount of zooxanthellae so much that the coral will not get enough energy via photosynthesis. This condition can be maintained for a long period of time without damage to the coral. However, our experiments have shown that continued overdosing, and only under this condition, coral tissue will become thinner and thinner and ultimately completely dissolve. We recommend dosing every 14 – 21 days. It is important to apply the full dose all at once or there will no be any changes. The reduction of zooxanthellae occurs within 48 hours and also reaches its highest point at that time. The reaction and, therefore, the dosing amount are different from tank to tank. We recommend starting at 50 % of the recommended amount to get a feel for the product. Subsequently, you can increase the dosing amount, not the interval, by 10% each time to find the perfect dosing amount. The maximum dosing amount is 1 ml per 25 gallons and should not be exceeded. We do not recommend the use of this product during the initial starting phase of the ZEOvit® system. There is too much change and your corals will not have enough time to adjust safely. We would like to mention at this point that this product has the fastest and most drastic impact of the whole system. The optimum dosing, in this case, is absolutely necessary in order not to damage your corals.

From there we just connected the dots and made some assumptions. Much like everything else in this hobby, all we have is speculation.

 

[jent]

Interesting, I appreciate the read (which I still have not digested yet).

One thing I thought worth noting is there is a difference in organic and inorganic copper too. I don't fully understand those differences, but it's my understanding that organic is way safer. So I always assumed that it was low levels of the safer organic copper as a means to provide the benefits we see in terrestrial plants. But I know there is a lot of assumptions in that thought process.

 

[smartwater101]

@Randy Holmes-Farley

??

 

[Bernie King]

I was looking through some options for trace elements and noticed Tropic Marin PRO-CORAL K+ includes copper? I was under the impression any amount copper is deadly to inverts like shrimp and coral...

copper is also in there salt mix
I wonder if all salt mixes have some copper in them?
i would be nice to know one that doesnt have copper in it!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Every living creature needs copper. The balance is to have enough but not too much so as to be toxic. The amount in commercial supplements is low.

 

[Bernie King]

Every living creature needs copper. The balance is to have enough but not too much so as to be toxic. The amount in commercial supplements is low.

Thank you for the reply Randy.
But to keep the measure of copper low, wouldn’t it be better to not have copper in salt mix, as nearly all food for fish and coral has a little copper in it? Limiting copper would be the right measure?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you for the reply Randy.
But to keep the measure of copper low, wouldn’t it be better to not have copper in salt mix, as nearly all food for fish and coral has a little copper in it? Limiting copper would be the right measure?

Wouldn’t it be better to supply and maintain a natural level? You are falsely assuming tanks generally need to lower copper. It is uncommon to see any copper in ICP tests of tank water.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

Natural seawater contains copper, albeit in very small amounts. If you're buying a salt or trace element that purportedly has all the elements of natural seawater, wouldn't you expect it to contain copper?

 

[C. Eymann]

NSW hovers around .07-.09ppm copper

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

NSW hovers around .07-.09ppm copper

no, that is far too high for NSW. The Stanford thing that pops up on google is very old and way wrong. The group that put it up no longer links to it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

A more accurate number is more like 0.00015 PPM copper.

Help!!! ICP test shows Copper!!!!

I know it's a extremely low amount but it's still copper:confused: I just want to make sure I am safe Here is the test

www.reef2reef.com

 

[GabeM]

This is totally anecdotal but I dose these trace elements daily and my copper in my icp tests shows as zero so it must be a very small amount.

 

[C. Eymann]

no, that is far too high for NSW. The Stanford thing that pops up on google is very old and way wrong. The group that put it up no longer links to it.

I didn't Google that, Im going off of what a hanna checker reads fresh mixed blue bucket Redsea salt at, which is supposedly natural sea salt via evaporation.

 

[C. Eymann]

Also

Wouldn’t it be better to supply and maintain a natural level? You are falsely assuming tanks generally need to lower copper. It is uncommon to see any copper in ICP tests of tank water.

also

ICP Analysis Comparison

I was curious in comparing results with different ICP Tests. I had already had some Triton tests so I picked up a pack of ICP-Analysis Tests. I collected the water samples within seconds of each other after rinsing the containers several times. The water was also collected in the main tank in...

www.reef2reef.com

This thread you mentioned ICP doesn't mean its accurate?


Should one be concerned on finding that a hanna HI747 copper checker is spitting out .07-.09 on healthy thriving reef aquariums?

 

[C. Eymann]

A more accurate number is more like 0.00015 PPM copper.

Help!!! ICP test shows Copper!!!!

I know it's a extremely low amount but it's still copper:confused: I just want to make sure I am safe Here is the test

www.reef2reef.com

Now you have me concerned, and researching a bit more, several sources are stating copper NSW concentration is .09ppm, molar concentration is .0000014

Im assuming you are referring to molar equivalent?

? can you elaborate?
Thanks!