Treating ich with cupramine

[ahl]

Hi there guys,

I am in the process of setting up my HT to treat all my fish with cupramine. Ich has showed up and I need it out, already took a dear fish.

HT will be a 30G with a HOB filter and an air stone. Will have multiple PVC elbows and pieces to provide some shelter.

I've read several opinions when it comes to length of the treatment. The bottle says 14 days, which most agree is not enough but I've also seen 3 weeks and 30 days. I have no problem with either since my DT will be in fallow regardless but I want to be sure I don't make it harder on the fish than what it needs to be.

Should I treat with antibiotics at some point during treatment to prevent any opportunistic infection?

After treatment is complete, how do I remove the medicine from the tank? I've read that the fish should be moved to a clean tank but that is not an option in my case.

Thank you in advance for your help!

 

[Crabs McJones]

Our resident fish disease expert @Humblefish has a great thread for copper treatment. I'll post it below. Hopefully it answers your question
Copper: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) and Marine Velvet Disease (Amyloodinium ocellatum). There is some anecdotal evidence that copper will suppress symptoms of Brooklynellahostilis and Uronema marinum; however it is unlikely to completelyeradicate either pathogen.

How To Treat - First, it is important to know what kind of copper you are using. Cupramine is fully charged (ionic) copper, and has a therapeutic range of 0.4-0.5 mg/L or ppm. You would use a Seachem or Salifert copper test kit for Cupramine, as those are capable of reading copper in the low range. Copper Power, on the other hand, is chelated copper. It has a much higher therapeutic range of 1.5-2.0 mg/L or ppm. As such, you need a “total copper test kit” such as API.

In addition to the aforementioned hobbyist grade test kits, the Hanna High Range Copper Colorimeter (HI702) is capable of reading all forms of copper. More info on that and other applicable copper test kits here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/copper-test-kits.257924/

Standard copper treatment lasts 30 consecutive days. The reason it takes so long is copper only targets the “free swimming stage” (the same holds true for all chemical treatments & hypo). While 7-14 days is the “norm” to reach this stage, certain strains of ich have a prolonged life cycle. Indeed, even 30 days may not be sufficient in some rare cases. This is why it is so important to observe after treatment ends, to ensure symptoms do not return.

A therapeutic level must be maintained at all times during the 30 days, so testing often is important. If the level drops even slightly out of range, then the 30 day clock restarts. One reason your copper level may drop unexpectedly is if you are treating in a tank with rock and substrate; these should be avoided with copper due to absorption. Conversely, if you exceed the therapeutic range you risk killing the fish.

Copper is a poison, pure and simple. It only works because most fish are able to withstand being in it longer than the parasites. Knowing this, it is wise to raise your copper level very slowly (over 5-7 days) instead of the usual 24-48 hour label directions. Doing so increases your odds of successfully treating a “copper sensitive” fish. The one exception to this rule is if Marine Velvet Disease is suspected. Due to it's fast killing nature you would want to raise the copper level to therapeutic within 24-48 hours when treating for velvet. Remove copper after 30 days by doing a large water change and using a Poly Filter, Cuprisorb, etc.

Pros - Readily available.

Cons/Side Effects - Appetite suppression and lethargy are both common side effects. If a fish stops eating completely, perform water changes (to lower the copper concentration) until he eats. If this happens a second time after you resume raising the copper, you’ll know you’ve encountered a “copper sensitive” fish and an alternative treatment should be used instead. (Note: Anytime you lower the copper level below therapeutic, the 30 day treatment clock begins anew once the copper is raised back up.)

To see which species copper should andshould not be used on, consult this chart: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-and-treatment-guidelines-with-chart.283450/

 

[ahl]

Thank you very much @Crabs Mcjones , it does answer some but I still need help with two.

- Is it recommended to treat with antibiotics also just in case?
- What is the best way to remove cupramine? Would Polyfilter work?

 

[Crabs McJones]

Thank you very much @Crabs Mcjones , it does answer some but I still need help with two.

- Is it recommended to treat with antibiotics also just in case?
- What is the best way to remove cupramine? Would Polyfilter work?

Polyfilter, cuprisorb and a water change. Not sure on antibiotic, I believe you can. Let's ask the expert himself @Humblefish

 

[Humblefish]

- Is it recommended to treat with antibiotics also just in case?

I prefer not to use antibiotics prophylactically. You will usually see signs of infection: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/tank-terror-bacterial-infections-in-the-reef-tank.22/