Triton Testing Poll: Tin vs PVC

Grant · Nov 4, 2014

I have exposed washers in my sump and they are possibly tin washers. I've covered them with tape. Once I change my cabinet hinges as well, hopefully after several regular large water changes the tin will be at the lower level.

Grant · Nov 4, 2014

Correction: washers in the cabinet. Not directly over the sump, but possibly flakes falling in.

reefkeeper2 · Nov 4, 2014

I have elevated Tin (2.56) and Lead( 8.45). I don't have any hose clamps in the water at all. Could these metals be in the calcium hydroxide used for kalkwater?

gregoryleonard · Nov 4, 2014

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
To be honest, I don't know what will remove tin, and am not even sure what form the tin is in to figure it out.

Organisms such as Caulerpa and Xenia will take up tin, as in this study:

Down the Drain, Exports from Reef Aquaria by Ronald L. Shimek, Ph.D. - Reefkeeping.com

Let's calculate how much:

Let's say you have 100 gallons (378 liters) of water volume and 10 ug/L of tin. That's 3.8 mg of tin.

Caulerpa contains about 0.7 mg/kg of tin.

So to remove half of that tin would require 2.7 kilograms (wet weight) of caulerpa.

That's a lot of macroalgae, but it may be useful if you export a lot.

Thanks Randy,
So if I read this study correctly. Skim mate also removes about 1/2 as much as Caulerpa, so If I have a 300 gal total system water volume (all tied together) am I correct in calculating that I would need about .9 Kg of caulerpa? Your calculations were based on 100 gallons at a concentration of 10 ug/L, so I have 3.8 mg of Tin per 300 gallons of water. Am I figuring that out correctly. So Chaeto and red grape algae won't remove Tin? just Caulerpa?
I have some Chaeto and Red grape macro algae coming this week, and I am doing a 15% wc each week over the next 4 weeks as directed by Triton using reef crystals, after that I will send another sample to Triton to see if what my readings are. So the Macro algae will have 3 weeks to grow and absorb anything it can take up during that period. I will interested to see what the 4 water changes and the other corrections I am putting in effect will have on the concentration levels of Sn, B, and Br and Li, as they all were in the red on my first test.

Diesel · Nov 4, 2014

I have no clue but will follow as I will start the triton test soon.
I have some rigid on my drains but straight sch40 on the rest of the plumbing.
Thanks Randy for making this aware to us.

FarmerTy · Nov 4, 2014

Just got my results and voted. I have no tin detected and have hard PVC (roughly 24') running through my 215-gallon tank that I setup at the beginning of this year.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Nov 5, 2014

gregoryleonard said:
Thanks Randy,
So if I read this study correctly. Skim mate also removes about 1/2 as much as Caulerpa, so If I have a 300 gal total system water volume (all tied together) am I correct in calculating that I would need about .9 Kg of caulerpa? Your calculations were based on 100 gallons at a concentration of 10 ug/L, so I have 3.8 mg of Tin per 300 gallons of water. Am I figuring that out correctly. So Chaeto and red grape algae won't remove Tin? just Caulerpa?
I have some Chaeto and Red grape macro algae coming this week, and I am doing a 15% wc each week over the next 4 weeks as directed by Triton using reef crystals, after that I will send another sample to Triton to see if what my readings are. So the Macro algae will have 3 weeks to grow and absorb anything it can take up during that period. I will interested to see what the 4 water changes and the other corrections I am putting in effect will have on the concentration levels of Sn, B, and Br and Li, as they all were in the red on my first test.

I just do not have values for any of the other types of macroalgae. They likely take it up as well, but I'm not sure exactly how much.

Skimmate does contain tin, but calculating values for it seems fruitless to me since little adjustments change how much water vs solids it contains. Also, in that article, it had only about twice the tin as the tank water itself. So collecting 1 gallon of skimmate may be no better than doing a 2 gallon water change with a low tin salt mix. That may be a bit complicated to actually calculate, however, since it averages multiple tanks with different tin levels, but IMO it shows that skimmate is not a huge exporter.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Nov 5, 2014

reefkeeper2 said:
I have elevated Tin (2.56) and Lead( 8.45). I don't have any hose clamps in the water at all. Could these metals be in the calcium hydroxide used for kalkwater?

Might be. It can be in many things. There is lead in some brands of CaCO3/CO2 reactor media, for example.

But the data I have suggests lead is very low in food grade calcium hydroxide. I use BRS calcium hydroxide for all of my calcium and alkalinity, and I do not have elevated levels of either lead or tin.

I discuss metals in various sources, including limewater, here:

Chemistry And The Aquarium: Metals In Limewater ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

Reef Aquaria with Low Soluble Metals by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

TheClark · Nov 6, 2014

Thanks for doing this Randy.

I am guessing that the majority of people with a sump have rigid pvc? The risers for the overflow, 90s, Ts for durso, gate valves and ball valves etc.

I have old and new PVC in my build personally but I voted for 3 years or less since I probably have more of that.

DRThompson · Nov 7, 2014

My tank is about 3 years old. Hard and soft PVC used. Also, I have Stainless steel clamps on some of the piping(underwater)
My Sn is 0

Jonty · Nov 7, 2014

I have high Tin and 6 month old SCH80 piping

Randy Holmes-Farley · Nov 9, 2014

Thanks for the info so far, folks.

Reeferdavemd · Jan 21, 2015

Just got my lab test back today and the Tin reading is a whopping 23.66!! I had some garbage hose clamps on there but changed them out a month ago so I. Hoping that was the problem.

Skydvr · Jan 21, 2015

Would there be a difference between PVC and CPVC?

SPotter · Feb 17, 2015

just got my test results and my tin level is 16.17. have we determined at what level does tin become harmful to livestock? I am considering using Triton's detox and see if that removes the tin. I also have very high lithium levels.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Feb 17, 2015

SPotter said:
just got my test results and my tin level is 16.17. have we determined at what level does tin become harmful to livestock? I am considering using Triton's detox and see if that removes the tin. I also have very high lithium levels.

No, sorry. I do not know the level to become especially concerned.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Feb 17, 2015

Skydvr said:
Would there be a difference between PVC and CPVC?

I do not know. The ingredients in any particular PVC are not generally available to users.

Triggreef · Feb 17, 2015

I voted Less than 3 years and no tin. But to be honest I just assume the pvc your talking about is normal home depot pvc for drain piping, which is what I used. I have returns and drains all hard piped as well as a separate ATS. I have a ton of big Macro algae, well half of a 55g full however much you think that might be. Mostly feather type caulerpa, but a bunch of red grape. I don't know how much it would export though because I generally feed it back to the tangs in my display.