Two fish deaths, no visible signs

[Scvbrent]

Would appreciate some help identifying what might be causing fish deaths in my 25g tank. Tank has been up for about 2.5 months, had gradually added two tiny clowns, a purple firefish, then royal gramma in that order. Firefish was first to go, then royal gramma - both after being in the tank a little over a week (not added same time). Both fish seemed fine, then noticed sitting still on sand and then dead within 24 hours. Breathing seemed normal, (not terribly experienced, so I could be missing something of course), no visible indications - no white spots, no tail damage etc. The two clowns seem fine through all of this. These fish were not quarantined, unfortunately. The royal gramma was found against the overflow, so I guess he was floating? Or stirred up from the sand by a wave maker? Firefish was found laying on the sand.

Phosphates and nitrates were high at one point (0.16) but now down to 0 phosphates and 4.2 nitrate. Ammonia/nirtrie both 0. Salinity seems steady at 35. Diatoms started about the same time as getting the firefish.

Have one coral, GSP, that was added along with the firefish, which hasn’t really opened up much, just barely here and there.

Any ideas? Or what I should do before trying another fish? Or how to know when to try another fish? Don’t want to rush this and have more loss. Thanks for any help!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Would appreciate some help identifying what might be causing fish deaths in my 25g tank. Tank has been up for about 2.5 months, had gradually added two tiny clowns, a purple firefish, then royal gramma in that order. Firefish was first to go, then royal gramma - both after being in the tank a little over a week (not added same time). Both fish seemed fine, then noticed sitting still on sand and then dead within 24 hours. Breathing seemed normal, (not terribly experienced, so I could be missing something of course), no visible indications - no white spots, no tail damage etc. The two clowns seem fine through all of this. These fish were not quarantined, unfortunately. The royal gramma was found against the overflow, so I guess he was floating? Or stirred up from the sand by a wave maker? Firefish was found laying on the sand.

Phosphates and nitrates were high at one point (0.16) but now down to 0 phosphates and 4.2 nitrate. Ammonia/nirtrie both 0. Salinity seems steady at 35. Diatoms started about the same time as getting the firefish.

Have one coral, GSP, that was added along with the firefish, which hasn’t really opened up much, just barely here and there.

Any ideas? Or what I should do before trying another fish? Or how to know when to try another fish? Don’t want to rush this and have more loss. Thanks for any help!

It will be to determine cause once fish have perished. I see ragged tail which could be from aggression OR post death from scavengers. There is a POSSIBILTY the clowns who are territorial may have contributed to this , but anything here would be an educated guess

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Would appreciate some help identifying what might be causing fish deaths in my 25g tank. Tank has been up for about 2.5 months, had gradually added two tiny clowns, a purple firefish, then royal gramma in that order. Firefish was first to go, then royal gramma - both after being in the tank a little over a week (not added same time). Both fish seemed fine, then noticed sitting still on sand and then dead within 24 hours. Breathing seemed normal, (not terribly experienced, so I could be missing something of course), no visible indications - no white spots, no tail damage etc. The two clowns seem fine through all of this. These fish were not quarantined, unfortunately. The royal gramma was found against the overflow, so I guess he was floating? Or stirred up from the sand by a wave maker? Firefish was found laying on the sand.

Phosphates and nitrates were high at one point (0.16) but now down to 0 phosphates and 4.2 nitrate. Ammonia/nirtrie both 0. Salinity seems steady at 35. Diatoms started about the same time as getting the firefish.

Have one coral, GSP, that was added along with the firefish, which hasn’t really opened up much, just barely here and there.

Any ideas? Or what I should do before trying another fish? Or how to know when to try another fish? Don’t want to rush this and have more loss. Thanks for any help!

I agree - the gramma has tail damage. How did the fins of the firefish look?

One possibility here are flukes, an external worm infection. Gramma and firefish tend to get these worse/sooner than clownfish do.

Can you post a video of the clownfish, taken under white light, just so I can try to rule out anything going on with them.

 

[Scvbrent]

I thought that too about the tail after I removed him and took that picture - I had specifically looking for tail damage when it was still alive, out of concern that the clowns might be aggressive. Again, I'm just barely past rookie stage here, but I could never see any tail damage when it was alive.

Will try and grab a video of the clowns tonight.

 

[1ocean]

Hmm,
Question..what type of clowns, hopefully not maroons. If they are my bet is them.
My experience with all three groups of your fish is as follows,
1, They tend to fight among their own species until a order is established and then later on the war begins again. Usually see this in the fire fish and clowns.
5 years ago I had 12 clowns and then as the years went on the war began. Had to donate a lot of them.
2. I have seen royal Gramma in large groups in tanks but do not know the outcome of that, but made me want to try a small group... I have not yet, maybe in the new tank that I am building 90x36x23
I can tell you I have a mated pair in a 300 and they hold their ground on their little den. The clowns and royal grammas would sometime test each other as I witnessed over the past 5 years.
My experience tells me that you're having a territory war going on.
Do you have enough rock work with areas for them to claim a territory.
I found that having a few separated rock structures helps as fish can claim a structure rather than a area next to another in the same rock structure.
Hope this helps...as there is no one correct answer on many things in this hobby.
Ah my coffee is ready

 

[1ocean]

Reviewing you picture...Question are you using metal items in your tank? as I see the royal gramm in on a, looks like a stainless-steel BBQ utensil?

 

[Scvbrent]

Reviewing you picture...Question are you using metal items in your tank? as I see the royal gramm in on a, looks like a stainless-steel BBQ utensil?

haha, not a bbq utensil, but can totally see how it looks like that! It's a glass scraper. Was the first thing I grabbed to remove the gramma from the tank.

No, just ordinary ocellaris clowns.

 

[Scvbrent]

video of clowns