Ugly stage and phosphate levels

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I personally think ratios are largely meaningless. Absolute values will always tell the full story. Ratios do not.

 

[spicymikey]

Regarding the original post, I'm not sure how much we can draw from a two-week test. There are dozens of important parameters that could have varied during that time frame to explain a subtle change in what you perceive as better or worse appearance. Also, not sure why your phosphates swung so much at the end, unless you are changing the amount of food you're feeding, or if you've added or removed fish and coral, started/stopped carbon dosing, or if you're not testing at the same time of the day each time. But, like you said that range is fine and I would not expect you to see any difference based on that reported spread. In fact, I've seen very little effect on Coral Health even when phosphates get high above 0.4 PPM. The only thing I've ever noticed is poor coloration and potentially slower growth with high phosphates. Something very very important to Farmers and resellers but maybe not so important to someone's personal reef aquarium. The bottom line, don't sweat it too much when it comes to phosphates and nitrates unless they get ridiculously high

 

[CHSUB]

The only thing I've ever noticed is poor coloration and potentially slower growth with high phosphates

I agree. My believe, experience is similar. I noticed extremely slow growth and brownish color with higher po4. I don’t force nutrient levels. I have found a properly set up aquarium, well feed with adequate export is going to produce an amazing result. My biggest problem is overgrowing corals. A protein skimmer, sock, and GAC is all I do to maintain near ocean level nutrients, while still maintaining NPS coral and “fast” growing mangroves. This is not new or recently discovered information, Sprung’s book published in 1994 beautifully illustrates the How To!

 

[CHSUB]

I personally think ratios are largely meaningless. Absolute values will always tell the full story. Ratios do not.

My rudimentary understanding of chemistry brings me to a similar conclusion. Specifically no3 in terms of any relationship. The algae is using nitrogen from the no3, however this nitrogen is available to the algae in numerous other ways that are not included in any ratio. Does my thinking make sense, beyond the idea of our joint agreement that ratios are meaningless?

 

[Sophie"s mom]

I don't see an alarming issue with your phosphate concentration here.

I would ask, what are you using for testing?

There are many members here at R2R that run beautiful tanks at arguably high nitrate and phosphate. If your corals are looking "better than ever", I would not change a thing

I hope that helps!

My thoughts exactly, once a tank matures, periodically testing, along with just letting your tank tell you when something is "off" . Once you find the happy place for you inhabitants, that should be your goal. All tanks are happy at different parameters.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Does my thinking make sense, beyond the idea of our joint agreement that ratios are meaningless?

Yes, different N sources are a big issue for nitrate to phosphate ratios. But I also have other reasons to think ratios meaningless.

Suppose one thinks that a 10:1 ratio is optimal.

If phosphate is 1 ppm, that puts nitrate at 100 ppm. That can obviously lead to a great looking tank, as exemplified by Richard Ross’ home tank.

But suppose instead of 100 ppm, the nitrate is 20 ppm. Ratio is now 50, not 10. Even with no other sources of N, is there any organism that cannot get all the N it needs from 20 ppm nitrate that would thrive even better at 100 ppm nitrate? That I strongly doubt

 

[dooner248]

Regarding the original post, I'm not sure how much we can draw from a two-week test. There are dozens of important parameters that could have varied during that time frame to explain a subtle change in what you perceive as better or worse appearance. Also, not sure why your phosphates swung so much at the end, unless you are changing the amount of food you're feeding, or if you've added or removed fish and coral, started/stopped carbon dosing, or if you're not testing at the same time of the day each time. But, like you said that range is fine and I would not expect you to see any difference based on that reported spread. In fact, I've seen very little effect on Coral Health even when phosphates get high above 0.4 PPM. The only thing I've ever noticed is poor coloration and potentially slower growth with high phosphates. Something very very important to Farmers and resellers but maybe not so important to someone's personal reef aquarium. The bottom line, don't sweat it too much when it comes to phosphates and nitrates unless they get ridiculously high

Is 1.35 way too high? I was only doing monthly water changes and had been using an auto feeder which may have been putting too much food in??? Also, my LFS only services my FXs every couple months. For the last three weeks I have done a weekly water change, about 10%. I also cleaned one of my two canisters each week and added a phosmax pad to each. I have reduced feeding, but I don’t know how much is enough other than a three finger pinch of flake food and a half sheet of seaweed. Any suggestions? Oh, I don’t have a sump or protein skimmer due to the expense.

 

[backbayreef]

When it comes to nutrients (and I’ve had my fair share of extreme variations of N&P). Corals didn’t seem to care once established.

I don’t actually care about ratios or target numbers; but rather just watch trend over time. Similar to alk, if my N&P are within a range, my corals will be happy. In fact, I do know that my Trident NP’s NO3 reading is higher than Hanna by 10-12ppm but as long as it’s consistently “off”, I’m good with it.

 

[spicymikey]

Is 1.35 way too high? I was only doing monthly water changes and had been using an auto feeder which may have been putting too much food in??? Also, my LFS only services my FXs every couple months. For the last three weeks I have done a weekly water change, about 10%. I also cleaned one of my two canisters each week and added a phosmax pad to each. I have reduced feeding, but I don’t know how much is enough other than a three finger pinch of flake food and a half sheet of seaweed. Any suggestions? Oh, I don’t have a sump or protein skimmer due to the expense.

Ideal levels are 0.03-0.05ppm. So, yes, that is not ideal. Is it too high? I have never had my PO4 level that high so I can't give you personal experience. Maybe others can. But I can tell you that when my PO4 got above 0.2 some SPS started darkening. I had it as high as 0.6ppm with no death. Most LPS never seemed to change color, and softies almost liked it better! So it depends on what you have in the tank and your expectations. If you have mostly LPS, mushrooms, leather corals, etc., then I doubt its worth the extra effort to get it lower than natural equilibrium of your tank (~1.35ppm). Best of luck