Underestimating the power of.........CUC?

[CavalierReef]

clean up crews have wrecked more reefs with invasion than I can count.


sounds mean I know, but they did.
here's the formula: start by hands off reefing and allowing the uglies phase per forum rules. add clean up crew at the start or during the outbreak, wait. tank is lost to cyano/ghax1000 posts and owner starts over or takes it down and repeats the initial set of action/inaction steps.


the clean up crew was the external source sure to fix things, that didnt.


thats not to say a clean up crew isn't part of a choice set that could easily be reversed for a different outcome, but they're still part. Its awesome to be invasion free without a cuc.

yes I have seen cuc's beat an invasion, but its not the majority of times. the majority of times is posting in the nuisance algae forum for help beyond cuc as we speak.

As usual, I have no idea what Brandon just said.

 

[Paul B]

I probably have 8,000 brittle stars which are a great and free CUC. You don't buy them, they just appear all over the place. I changed water today and most of them climbed up on the highest place they could find and spawned. I took this today. The entire tank was covered in these.

 

[brandon429]

We have many work threads where comprehension wasn’t a problem @CavalierReef if you have any single one I could see, it will be neat to see how you arrange invasion fix requests.

post a thread where you worked an algae challenge with outcome, curious to see your flow.

People sometimes state that they can’t understand when they really just disagree but don’t have a handy alternative to offer.

 

[H3rm1tCr@b]

1. How important do you think a good clean up crew is to a saltwater reef aquarium?
I believe it is extremely important. Without a population of snails, crabs, shrimp, etc. our tanks would look like a giant forest of green.
2. What are your favorite cleaners?
I personally adore crabs and shrimp. They have the funniest personalities, especially hermits. I noticed for example that one of my peppermint shrimp got so excited that I was feeding brine shrimp and she went over to a nearby fish and picked all over it. The fish was not pleased. I also really like limpets, chitons, spaghetti worms, etc. The little weird things that are sometimes unidentifiable I believe are the most important.
3. How often do you "replenish" the cleaning crew in your tank?
If I notice the snails are disappearing and the little crabs aren't showing up for feeding time, which is usually every year or so depending on the creature. The crabs live for a long time, snails often get taken out first.

 

[CavalierReef]

Brandon, my post was perhaps a poor attempt at humor. I find your contributions to this site helpful and, in some cases, inspiring. I am actually one of those that agree with your "rip clean" philosophy. But this is an example of "what the heck did he just say" to which I refer: "neat to see how you arrange invasion fix requests." I spent years writing for a living and I don't understand that at all. Enlighten me, please.

 

[Scottanne]

You ask for help but say your parameters are in range with out posting them. I would start by posting your parameters especially nitrate and phosphates. One reason these may be in range is due to the algae growth. I find the easiest way to control nitrate and phosphate and algae growth in the tank is via an ATS. You can build a simple effective one for $30 in very little space. See my DIY thread on under $30 ATS. Mine got a algae bloom under control quickly in my 300 gallon.

Thanks! I’ll check out your thread!

 

[Conovan]

I don't have a cuc yet. It is in shipping at the moment and last update they were in jacksonville about a 3 hour drive from me. I am looking forward more to the diversity in my tank more than any cleaning functions. I ordered way less than what the site said to because these will be additional pets for me rather than a commodity to be used and replenished.

 

[rusgum]

I don't see the need for them.

 

[Doctorgori]

I think CUC recommended numbers to be inflated. I also think CUC appetites and actual diets to be misunderstood. I also know snails and other ocean inverts can live for years and years literally.

That said, my guess is hermits and starvation account for the majority of losses.
You want small snails/cuc? skip the hermits, no matter how “safe” the claims.
Feed your CUC supplementals: seaweed, et
personally I wouldn’t put anymore than 1 turbo/20 gal even in a established tank, maybe double for nerites & Trochus

 

[Sallstrom]

When running larger tanks I like to use black longspined urchins and Ctenocaetus tangs as grazers. Many of them are now 10+ years. So we haven't had to replensih those.
Then of course all the worms, brittlestars and snails that comes with rocks and sand. And perhaps rabbitfish for Valonia algae and CB butterfly for aiptasia.

We haven't bought snails for algae grazing in many years now(just for other tests). An urchin live long, graze like 10 snails, and could easily be fed if there's too little algae left. So I'm surprised they are not more common among clean up crews

1. How important do you think a good clean up crew is to a saltwater reef aquarium?
Important, as they help you running the tank the way you want to. It would take a lot of time brushing all rock in a 2000L tank from algae for example.

2. What are your favorite cleaners?
Ctenochaetus tangs do a great job. Specially eating Diatoms. Second place urchins.

3. How often do you "replenish" the cleaning crew in your tank?
Our uchins seems to live long lifes, so do the Ctenochaetus tangs. So I don't know yet

 

[brandon429]

@CavalierReef If I replied back twice in a row asking to see a work thread example to see how you make a game plan and follow through, I still think I wouldnt get to see one.

prob best to move fwd
was hoping to start another work thread with Scottannes tank, its an easy tune up

 

[Paul B]

All older tanks will also have thousands of Bristle worms making other CUC un necessary.
These things will sniff out any food and consume it in seconds.
They are another free creature in this hobby, sometimes we get to many and to big.

 

[LeftyReefer]

My tank is only 6 weeks old. I have a very limited CUC, but so far, they seem to be keeping up with the job as far as algae goes. My CUC is much much much smaller than any CUC vendor recommends, but they've been more than up to the job.
2 turbos (sold as Mexican Turbos by my LFS)
1 nassarius (burrows down in the sand and sends up a snorkel)
4 small snails of unkown ID. (They only stick to the glass and rocks, never the sand.)

I also have an algae blenny, who does most of the heavy lifting. I've had him less than a week and my tank is totally algae free. He's got things so spotless, I'm not sure what the snails are going to eat now...

At this point, 6 weeks in, fish and snail poo is far more of an issue than algae in my tank.
I need to increase my detritus crew more than anything.

The trouble is that whatever I find to eat the fish detritus, is just going to make its own detritus, and then I'm going to need something that eats that detritus... and then that is going to make its own detritus, rinse, repeat. The struggle continues.

or i could vacuum, I guess.

 

[Bpb]

1. How important do you think a good clean up crew is to a saltwater reef aquarium?

Conventional definition as in an army of snails and hermit crabs? Not important. Maybe helpful early on before biodiversity takes off

2. What are your favorite cleaners?

I prefer to stock some aggressively herbivorous fish to constantly work on rock work algaes. If it’s a bad outbreak, pincushion urchins have been most effective for me.

otherwise what I feel works absolutely best are the naturally regulating inverts (worms/pods) that tend to grow and decline as food is abailnlw


3. How often do you "replenish" the cleaning crew in your tank?

Basically never. If a tang or rabbitfish died. I’d likely purchase a replacement. But as it stands I have zero crabs, shrimp, or snails in my tank.

 

[Bpb]

I think “clean up crew” is overrated, and in many cases is another way this hobby creates for us to spend our money.

We spend money to “replenish” our stocks of CUC when they die off (starve), just to have the new batch slowly starve off, adding more nutrients to the tank.

Sure, if you have a problem like bubble algae, get some emerald crabs; hair algae get some turbos or sea hare; aiptasia peppermints etc. But otherwise, I don’t think a tank needs to have the typical “cleanup crew” besides the ones that usually show up on their own (amphipods, bristleworms, etc).

my sentiments exactly

 

[creativeballance]

I have a small CUC right now because of the sister-in-law who killed everything CUC wise. Now that she's gone I plan to add a few more

What did you do to your sister-in-law?
Was it fatal? Or did you drop her off in the middle of the pacific?

 

[725196]

1. How important do you think a good clean up crew is to a saltwater reef aquarium?

Just like in the ocean a CuC is foundational. I think, therefore, they are imperative in the home aquarium.

2. What are your favorite cleaners?

Mini bristle stars, bristle worms, scarlet hermit crabs, Urchin, some shrimp, all sorts of “pods” and a variety of snails. I will also add that many fish can be a part of the CuC.

3. How often do you "replenish" the cleaning crew in your tank?

As often as needed.

 

[Evanbardiel]

I run a handful of different things in my tank but my absolute favorite is shrimp, followed by snails. Not a huge crab fan personally.

 

[Doglips56]

No real reason I guess , if they ate a couple snails I'd be ok lol. Just feel like snails are all ya really need . Nassarius, cerith, trochus and a couple turbos all ya ever need unless you need some bubble algae control

I don’t feel like I have a huge clean up crew for my 160 (total volume, 125 tank). I have two conch snails, 3 urchins, 5-6 hermits, 4 Mexican turbos, an assortment of astrea snails, then the “extras” brittle stars, a tiny black snail I can’t remember the name of, bristle worms and pods

 

[Nanorock1970]

1. How important do you think a good clean up crew is to a saltwater reef aquarium?

I feel that a good cleanup crew is added biodiversity for a specific need. Very important to add beneficial organisms that are part of the bottom of the food chain. Don't add to many, too soon. They need stuff to eat.

2. What are your favorite cleaners?
In my 56 gal tank I don't really have a count of each but I have a closed glass lid so I have Nerite snails, Fl Cerith snails, dwarf cerith snails, Trochus snails, Nassarius snails that I purchased. I did buy a much smaller package with the intent of replenishing/adding more as needed. If you buy them all at once, they can all die off due to old age similar times. Also you will over stock your tank, they will eat everything and then die off from starvation. Some clean up crew that came with my live rock are bristle worms (that I occasionally trap when I see some big ones) and spaghetti worms. There is a bunch of other critters living in the sand that I can't identify but they are living so they must be eating something and keeping biodiversity in my tank. Oh yes I also have a cleaner shrimp, cool as crap to watch him pick over the fish at his cleaning station.
Non favorite CUC, no crabs. Hermits fight each other and kill off snails, emerald crabs are cute when they are small and do a good job but when they get bigger, they chase down fish.
My clean up crew is so efficient that I have lost fish (seen them not doing well) and the CUC disposes of the evidence before I even know the fish has died....Did someone say call in "the cleaners" to clean up the crime site..

3. How often do you "replenish" the cleaning crew in your tank?

This is an as needed thing. I was planning on adding additional CUC snails in 6 months if my last purchase was not keeping up but I think I am going to wait it out. Sure areas of the tank seam to build up, just when I think it is getting out of hand, BAM the CUC takes care of it. I feel I have a fairly good balance between CUC food and CUC diversity.