Uronema in QT

asome_one

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I am quarantining some fish in a 40 gallon prior to going in my DT. Seeded from sponges and media from display. I originally added a flasher wrasse, tomini tang, some cardinals, and stripped blenny. I began the process of slowly increasing copper (copper power). Yesterday I added 5 chromis and 1 royal Gramma. All from the same tank at the fish shop. At the time of addition my copper level was 1.06 (Hanna). Drip acclimated for 45 minutes. Increased copper to 1.3 this morning. All were eating. No detectable ammonia. Today I have lost 4 chromis. All showing telltale red oval spots of uronema. It is what it is for the chromis. I am rather concerned for the rest of my fish though. I have researched the limited ability to treat and would rather this not kill my expensive wrasse or tang.
What level of concerned should I be? I have no formaldehyde for treatment. I have metro prazi and copper. I can get other things but it will be at least 2 days before it arrives.

Thank you in advance.
 
I am quarantining some fish in a 40 gallon prior to going in my DT. Seeded from sponges and media from display. I originally added a flasher wrasse, tomini tang, some cardinals, and stripped blenny. I began the process of slowly increasing copper (copper power). Yesterday I added 5 chromis and 1 royal Gramma. All from the same tank at the fish shop. At the time of addition my copper level was 1.06 (Hanna). Drip acclimated for 45 minutes. Increased copper to 1.3 this morning. All were eating. No detectable ammonia. Today I have lost 4 chromis. All showing telltale red oval spots of uronema. It is what it is for the chromis. I am rather concerned for the rest of my fish though. I have researched the limited ability to treat and would rather this not kill my expensive wrasse or tang.
What level of concerned should I be? I have no formaldehyde for treatment. I have metro prazi and copper. I can get other things but it will be at least 2 days before it arrives.

Thank you in advance.
Pictures would be very helpful for both assessment and confirmation. For Chromis and anthias, I recommend Ruby Rally pro bath for 90 minutes. Chloroquine Phosphate will also work but must be used precisely. Uronema is an obligate parasite, and can thrive on bacteria, uneaten food, and waste so besides treatment also maintain a clean tank removing waste daily.
Once in QT tank, treat and assure that the parasites have been eliminated.
 
I am quarantining some fish in a 40 gallon prior to going in my DT. Seeded from sponges and media from display. I originally added a flasher wrasse, tomini tang, some cardinals, and stripped blenny. I began the process of slowly increasing copper (copper power). Yesterday I added 5 chromis and 1 royal Gramma. All from the same tank at the fish shop. At the time of addition my copper level was 1.06 (Hanna). Drip acclimated for 45 minutes. Increased copper to 1.3 this morning. All were eating. No detectable ammonia. Today I have lost 4 chromis. All showing telltale red oval spots of uronema. It is what it is for the chromis. I am rather concerned for the rest of my fish though. I have researched the limited ability to treat and would rather this not kill my expensive wrasse or tang.
What level of concerned should I be? I have no formaldehyde for treatment. I have metro prazi and copper. I can get other things but it will be at least 2 days before it arrives.

Thank you in advance.

Uro can survive copper. Food for thought.

Metro can possibly take care of it if dosed correctly. I have a LFS that just has it in all its tanks. Sadly they really nice fish all the time. My last interaction with 4 dead flame angles has been uro from this shop. Since then purchase many other angels, but, I started doing something different. I started doing H2o2 baths with all fish from this place. Have yet to get uronema. Then I purchased a Venustus Angel. It was late in the day so I just acclimated and in the QT. 3.5 weeks later, by itself the only fish, I had to put it down because of uronema. All I did differently was not do a H2o2 bath.

20 ml per gal of SW for 30 min.

Maybe anecdotal info, but it works for me.
 
I am quarantining some fish in a 40 gallon prior to going in my DT. Seeded from sponges and media from display. I originally added a flasher wrasse, tomini tang, some cardinals, and stripped blenny. I began the process of slowly increasing copper (copper power). Yesterday I added 5 chromis and 1 royal Gramma. All from the same tank at the fish shop. At the time of addition my copper level was 1.06 (Hanna). Drip acclimated for 45 minutes. Increased copper to 1.3 this morning. All were eating. No detectable ammonia. Today I have lost 4 chromis. All showing telltale red oval spots of uronema. It is what it is for the chromis. I am rather concerned for the rest of my fish though. I have researched the limited ability to treat and would rather this not kill my expensive wrasse or tang.
What level of concerned should I be? I have no formaldehyde for treatment. I have metro prazi and copper. I can get other things but it will be at least 2 days before it arrives.

Thank you in advance.
Pictures would be very helpful for both assessment and confirmation. For Chromis and anthias, I recommend Ruby Rally pro bath for 90 minutes. Chloroquine Phosphate will also work but must be used precisely. Uronema is an obligate parasite, and can thrive on bacteria, uneaten food, and waste so besides treatment also maintain a clean tank removing waste daily.
Once in QT tank, treat and assure that the parasites have been eliminated.
Sure thing.
72b29659-4772-4ed9-89de-659b419a0d17.jpg
94ad15d7-9d09-4825-aa31-6af233eccf26.jpg


I definitely am guilty of not maintaining the cleanest of QTs. I have had intermittent bacterial blooms. I ensure the water is heavily aerated and I pay attention to all the fish to ensure no heavy breathing at rest and such.

I may have to step up my game, feed less and water change larger.
 
I am quarantining some fish in a 40 gallon prior to going in my DT. Seeded from sponges and media from display. I originally added a flasher wrasse, tomini tang, some cardinals, and stripped blenny. I began the process of slowly increasing copper (copper power). Yesterday I added 5 chromis and 1 royal Gramma. All from the same tank at the fish shop. At the time of addition my copper level was 1.06 (Hanna). Drip acclimated for 45 minutes. Increased copper to 1.3 this morning. All were eating. No detectable ammonia. Today I have lost 4 chromis. All showing telltale red oval spots of uronema. It is what it is for the chromis. I am rather concerned for the rest of my fish though. I have researched the limited ability to treat and would rather this not kill my expensive wrasse or tang.
What level of concerned should I be? I have no formaldehyde for treatment. I have metro prazi and copper. I can get other things but it will be at least 2 days before it arrives.

Thank you in advance.

Uro can survive copper. Food for thought.

Metro can possibly take care of it if dosed correctly. I have a LFS that just has it in all its tanks. Sadly they really nice fish all the time. My last interaction with 4 dead flame angles has been uro from this shop. Since then purchase many other angels, but, I started doing something different. I started doing H2o2 baths with all fish from this place. Have yet to get uronema. Then I purchased a Venustus Angel. It was late in the day so I just acclimated and in the QT. 3.5 weeks later, by itself the only fish, I had to put it down because of uronema. All I did differently was not do a H2o2 bath.

20 ml per gal of SW for 30 min.

Maybe anecdotal info, but it works for me.
I read briefly read about uro before getting the chromis but didn't catch the part where it could spread to non damsel non chromis type fish. Dumb me. That's an interesting process. Isn't the uro internal that late stage shows external features? I wonder how the h2o2 is managing to stave it off. I mean, I have plenty of h2o2 so I could give it a go on my last chromis if it's not already dead.
 
I read briefly read about uro before getting the chromis but didn't catch the part where it could spread to non damsel non chromis type fish. Dumb me. That's an interesting process. Isn't the uro internal that late stage shows external features? I wonder how the h2o2 is managing to stave it off. I mean, I have plenty of h2o2 so I could give it a go on my last chromis if it's not already dead.
Any fish can have uronema but most fish seem to be completely unaffected by it, it's mostly just chromis.
 
I am quarantining some fish in a 40 gallon prior to going in my DT. Seeded from sponges and media from display. I originally added a flasher wrasse, tomini tang, some cardinals, and stripped blenny. I began the process of slowly increasing copper (copper power). Yesterday I added 5 chromis and 1 royal Gramma. All from the same tank at the fish shop.
Sounds like a lot of fish in what is by definition an unstable tank. Consider that this is probably adding stress to their condition.

Drip acclimated for 45 minutes.
This is excessive and might also contribute to your fishes early demise by further weakening their innate immune system.

Check out Sustainable Aquatics' *very complete* white paper on acclimation so you understand when you should actually use an intensive acclimation process. (Hint: Only if the fish has been in the bag for a long period so that CO2 and ammonia have built up. Read the doc tho!)

http://www.sustainableaquatics.com/docs/Acclimation-White-Paper.docx

You will notice that it's very different, for some very good reasons, from what you did. In most cases for hobbyists like you and me a much simpler acclimation (or even NO acclimation) are better options.

obligate parasite
Maybe a minor point, but "obligate" means it can't survive without its (fish) host. I think you mean something else where *it can* survive without its host?

I started doing H2o2 baths with all fish from this place. Have yet to get uronema.
[....]

Maybe anecdotal info, but it works for me.
I don't think it's merely anecdotal...just more niche than it should be. (IMO, anyway.)

We don't tend to have a lot of regard here for academic/scientific writing in this subject area, but an authority that gets a lot of respect outside of our fish disease forum recommends peroxide baths.

Except for the lack of regard already mentioned I don't understand how everyone doesn't already do a freshwater dip on all new fish....and amending it with peroxide seems like a no-brainer since it's apparently generally well tolerated and makes and already-effective, well-tolerated freshwater dip even more effective.

Maybe someday. :)

I definitely am guilty of not maintaining the cleanest of QTs. I have had intermittent bacterial blooms. I ensure the water is heavily aerated and I pay attention to all the fish to ensure no heavy breathing at rest and such.
QT kills as many fish for new hobbyists as disease, I wouldn't be surprised if it were more.

It's easy to do wrong.

It's hard to do right.

It can make a healthy fish sick. It can make a sick fish dead. (You don't hear these possibilities in the sales pitch.)

And it only gets more complicated when you start talking about medicating vs just observing.

Experts claim "great success" but it's not a great combination for anyone new to the process....especially if they are also new to the hobby.

I may have to step up my game, feed less and water change larger.
The difficulty is definitely worth extra consideration.

Most assume it's easy and many get burned.

Restricting food to sick fish is a little like using gasoline to put out a fire. Feed them well, just make sure ZERO food is being wasted in the tank. Keep a small siphon hose, standard filter sock and a bucket near the QT so you can quickly and easily remove food and poops. 1/2" tubing or even airline tubing+some rigid tubing are idea for this. You can pour the water back in the tank at the end, so it won't mess with medication levels or salinity, etc. (Use a fine mesh filter sock if you also want to remove any active parasites from the water while you work.....5 micron socks are available....probably finer too, but they don't pass much water so might be of more limited use. 5 micron should be able to handle a 1/2" siphon hose.

I you REALLY can't properly maintain a QT tank (eg due to time or other factors), simply admit it and look for a different method.

Or....rebuild the QT so that it's better FOR YOU in terms of maintenance. The typically recommended QT is a garbage design anyway if you ask me....set up like a prison cell, which is obviously dumb to me because it's stressful to the fish. QT should be set up like a good, basic fish tank with plenty of ROOM for the fish and plenty of fake decorations and plants so the fish feels more at home, less stressed. Even a piece of live rock (that you keep in the QT) is a great idea.
 
I read briefly read about uro before getting the chromis but didn't catch the part where it could spread to non damsel non chromis type fish. Dumb me. That's an interesting process. Isn't the uro internal that late stage shows external features? I wonder how the h2o2 is managing to stave it off. I mean, I have plenty of h2o2 so I could give it a go on my last chromis if it's not already dead.

Had a flame angel that passed from internal. Then had another that was clean of uro (coral beauty) moved to the QT, thinking it will not effect the new one, sure enough the new one got internal uro.

The coral beauty that was added was taken down in about a week. Had this fish for a bit of time. And actually got it from a shop that I have not had uro issues on fish from their systems. I moved it over trying to consolidate tanks. Thinking oh the FA died from internal, the CB sure will not catch it.

I have come to think that uro can be ingested if concentrations are big enough. Or it just makes its way through the large scale of fish with large scales. Fact is a fish does not hatch from its egg with uro. So it has a way to make it into the fish. A open wound possibly, or a lesion of sorts. In my case I didn’t spot any issues with the fishes body to suspect a possibility of uro infection.

I have read a bit into this disease being it has taken out a few beautiful angles, including the most recent the Venustus (correct name Venusta) angle. But most of these aside from the CB I mentioned here in my post have been from the same LFS.
 

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