Use of plants to lower atmospheric co2 for ph stability

[N.Sreefer]

In my short time on here I have seen a few posts talking about ph swings due to the closed atmosphere in a house during the winter. This piqued my interest as a horticulturist. The prayer plant Maranta leuconeura has been determined to be the most effective at co2 absorption in a few different studies. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIARAG&usg=AOvVaw0wuT7MGYwqw6jSlrROX4_7

Although some studies dispute this. In a 500 sqft space 8 actively growing prayer plants should effectively keep oxygen stable enough to prevent a ph swing if they were ran on an opposite photoperiod of the reef tank. When the plants reached full size they would have to be switched out for younger specimens. Hopefully someone out there finds this useful.

 

[GillMeister]

In my short time on here I have seen a few posts talking about ph swings due to the closed atmosphere in a house during the winter. This piqued my interest as a horticulturist. The prayer plant Maranta leuconeura has been determined to be the most effective at co2 absorption in a few different studies. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIARAG&usg=AOvVaw0wuT7MGYwqw6jSlrROX4_7

Although some studies dispute this. In a 500 sqft space 8 actively growing prayer plants should effectively keep oxygen stable enough to prevent a ph swing if they were ran on an opposite photoperiod of the reef tank. When the plants reached full size they would have to be switched out for younger specimens. Hopefully someone out there finds this useful.

I had the same train of thought about reducing CO2. I'm looking at either a Chinese Evergreen or Rubber Plant. Both are good for removing CO2.

Most who want to try and control pH swings have macro algae in their sump with a grow light running opposite the display tank light schedule.

 

[N.Sreefer]

Id avoid the chinese evergreen respiration increases with surface area of the leaves. That's part of what makes me doubt the efficacy of macro algae for reducing co2 it would take an absolutely massive refugium to accomplish the same thing as a couple terrestrial plants.

 

[BeltedCoyote]

I wonder if an algae turf scrubber would make any dent on ph swings?

 

[N.Sreefer]

I wonder if an algae turf scrubber would make any dent on ph swings?

If it was well maintained so theres always new growth that would probably work better than my idea with houseplants.

 

[ReefBeta]

Id avoid the chinese evergreen respiration increases with surface area of the leaves. That's part of what makes me doubt the efficacy of macro algae for reducing co2 it would take an absolutely massive refugium to accomplish the same thing as a couple terrestrial plants.

There is massive difference between CO2 in water and that in air. For example, with Alk=9, the difference from ph 7.8 to 8 is only 1.5 ppm CO2 in water. Both the display and a well run refugium is capable of taking up that much in the dozens or hundreds of gallons of water. That's why you see ph rise during the day.

But to lower CO2 in house, you need to drop the CO2 from up to 1000ppm down to 300ppm from the tens of thousands of cubic foot air. That's massive difference. A typical house plants are not going to make much of an impact.

 

[GillMeister]

Id avoid the chinese evergreen respiration increases with surface area of the leaves. That's part of what makes me doubt the efficacy of macro algae for reducing co2 it would take an absolutely massive refugium to accomplish the same thing as a couple terrestrial plants.

I guess I'd expect increased respiration to be a good thing.

You might have a good point about macroalgae but I would like to see some research. Macro algae will try to take out the CO2 that's already in the water whereas house plants remove it from the air before it gets in the water. I would compare it to correcting your steering after you've hit the ditch as opposed to keeping yourself on the road to begin with. The question is really how effective the plants are at removing CO2 from a room or entire house. Considering the difference in overall volume the macro algae might be more effective than the house plants.

I don't know, I'm just hypothesizing.

 

[ReefBeta]

I wonder if an algae turf scrubber would make any dent on ph swings?

The reason algae turf scrubber is efficient is because the algae have access to CO2 in the air. That give them the competitive advantage over other algae in the tank. So for that reason, I would expect its impact to pH in the water will be lower than refugium. But I never try to run one so that's only theory.

 

[N.Sreefer]

There is massive difference between CO2 in water and that in air. For example, with Alk=9, the difference from ph 7.8 to 8 is only 1.5 ppm CO2 in water. Both the display and a well run refugium is capable of taking up that much in the dozens or hundreds of gallons of water. That's why you see ph rise during the day.

But to lower CO2 in house, you need to drop the CO2 from up to 1000ppm down to 300ppm from the tens of thousands of cubic foot air. That's massive difference. A typical house plants are not going to make much of an impact.

Click the link in the my original post with 8 prayer plants the reduction in atmospheric co2 would be very close to 500 ppm thats why i was hypothesizing an effect on dissolved co2

 

[N.Sreefer]

7.62% reduction in co2 per plant with low light https://www.researchgate.net/public...rate_Carbon_Dioxide_Using_Low_Light_Intensity

 

[ReefBeta]

Click the link in the my original post with 8 prayer plants the reduction in atmospheric co2 would be very close to 500 ppm thats why i was hypothesizing an effect on dissolved co2

That test was done with the plant enclosed in a 1 cubic meter chamber. The volume of air in a house is easily several hundreds. So it equals to 5ppm reduction.

 

[schuby]

Are the prayer plants safe for pets? I have 2 cats. Do you have a top-ten list of CO2-reducing, household plants and whether or not they are pet-safe?

 

[N.Sreefer]

Initial CO2 for the Anthurium was 467 ppm, the final reading was 368 ppm.
Initial CO2 for the Dumb Cane was 436 ppm, the final reading was 332 ppm.
Initial CO2 for the Golden Pothos was 455 ppm, the final reading was 377 ppm.
Initial CO2 for the Bird’s Nest Fern was 440 ppm, the final reading was 364 ppm.
Initial CO2 for the Prayer Plant was 453 ppm, the final reading was 376 ppm.
Initial CO2 for the Spider Plant was 435 ppm, the final reading was 350 ppm.
Initial CO2 for the Arrowhead Plant was 433 ppm, the final reading was 333 ppm.

Indoor plants as agents deterioration of gas pollutions | Request PDF

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I will say I was wrong the prayer plant is not best dumbcane is better. However not a good houseplant with pets and kids. I would suggest golden pothos with pets. Its not technically edible but calcium oxalate wont kill your cat and you can grow it in a hanging basket to keep it out of reach.

 

[mdb_talon]

Although some studies dispute this. In a 500 sqft space 8 actively growing prayer plants should effectively keep oxygen stable enough to prevent a ph swing if they were ran on an opposite photoperiod of the reef tank. When the plants reached full size they would have to be switched out for younger specimens. Hopefully someone out there finds this useful.

**** Edited - I did my math really wrong below getting square feet and cubic feet screwed up. It is really ~27 cubic meters in a 10x10x9H room..... meaning 27 plants in that room for a max 14% reduction.
****

I read the article, but reached a different conclusion than you. Based off my math you would need around 87 plants in a 10x10 room (9ft high ceilings) to reduce CO2 by 14% (the max I saw). Basing that off the study showing reduction in a 1 cubic meter box (~10.7 square feet). A 10x10x9H room would have around 900 cubic square feet.

All studies I have seen show that in a real world situation it is essentially impossible to reduce indoor co2 levels by a significant amount using plants.

 

[N.Sreefer]

I read the article, but reached a different conclusion than you. Based off my math you would need around 87 plants in a 10x10 room (9ft high ceilings) to reduce CO2 by 14% (the max I saw). Basing that off the study showing reduction in a 1 cubic meter box (~10.7 square feet). A 10x10x9H room would have around 900 cubic square feet.

All studies I have seen show that in a real world situation it is essentially impossible to reduce indoor co2 levels by a significant amount using plants.

You have to account for the size of the plants in the experiment

 

[N.Sreefer]

My thoughts are many of these plants will continue to grow and reach a much larger size than the plants used in the experiment which equates to more leaf space

 

[mdb_talon]

My thoughts are many of these plants will continue to grow and reach a much larger size than the plants used in the experiment which equates to more leaf space

Sorry my earlier message had my math way off, but I keep the same conclusion that it is very impractical. Would need dozens of plants to make even a relatively small difference. If you try to help this by having very large plants you are going to again run into practical issues (ie a prayer plant only gets about 12" tall). You would need racks of plants with a ton of light to make a significant enough difference to really impact PH.

 

[HuduVudu]

In my short time on here I have seen a few posts talking about ph swings due to the closed atmosphere in a house during the winter. This piqued my interest as a horticulturist. The prayer plant Maranta leuconeura has been determined to be the most effective at co2 absorption in a few different studies. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIARAG&usg=AOvVaw0wuT7MGYwqw6jSlrROX4_7

Although some studies dispute this. In a 500 sqft space 8 actively growing prayer plants should effectively keep oxygen stable enough to prevent a ph swing if they were ran on an opposite photoperiod of the reef tank. When the plants reached full size they would have to be switched out for younger specimens. Hopefully someone out there finds this useful.

This is a myth and doesn't work.

I did indeed try houseplants still have the houseplants, no reduction in CO2.

If you want to reduce CO2 in your home get an ERV.

My build thread tells the tale.

 

[N.Sreefer]

Sorry my earlier message had my math way off, but I keep the same conclusion that it is very impractical. Would need dozens of plants to make even a relatively small difference. If you try to help this by having very large plants you are going to again run into practical issues (ie a prayer plant only gets about 12" tall). You would need racks of plants with a ton of light to make a significant enough difference to really impact PH.

12 by 18 but co2 absorption would reduce when it stopped growing imo. Its got a sprawling growth habit so if you grew them on a living wall or a pot tree or even hanging baskets it wouldnt be impractical. To lower the expense of the plants you could propagate them in jars of water. One wall of your house 2 florescent fixtures and some pvc and water. Start with one specimen and propagate I cant see that being very time consuming or impractical. My math was off at first aswell.

 

[N.Sreefer]

I was thinking something like this the plants would overlap eachother taking up less space