Using ground probes in aquariums

[BeanAnimal]

Yeah - can't have nuisance trips on life-safety devices. Whole different ball of wax in an ER or ICU.

 

[wil-yuhm]

I wonder how that idiot would feel if he was water boarded to circulatory failure and then revived with a bare lamp cord... good grief what is wrong with people.

I agree.

 

[Steve Zee]

Yeah - can't have nuisance trips on life-safety devices. Whole different ball of wax in an ER or ICU.

Exactly! It also doesn’t help that human body is much more conductive on the inside. Maybe the surgeon should just place a grounding probe next to the kidneys when operating. Lol!

 

[wil-yuhm]

In fresh water - a grounded probe is out of questions. If you get fields in freshwater - the current will go through the body of the fish because the conductivity is higher than the surrounding water - electrofishing. In saltwater - the water have much higher conductivity than the body - the current gooses outside the body - no harm to the fish.

Sincerely Lasse

Pertinent I hope. Effects of electricity on fish. Sometimes electrofishing methods are used to clear schools of undesirable fish:

 

[gbroadbridge]

Pertinent I hope. Effects of electricity on fish. Sometimes electrofishing methods are used to clear schools of undesirable fish:

Dinner kids!

 

[wil-yuhm]

I think BeanAnimal covered the question perfectly. A simplified way to look at it is the "the bird on a wire" scenario. Very hard for the bird to ground itself when so far away. When a grounded source (opportunity to ground) is placed in near proximity then it becomes more dangerous for you. The good news is that a GFCI will protect you if you have a grounding probe. That's why it's especially imperative to have a GFCI with a grounding probe.

Couldn't resist:




This trick was patented by ®Tesla!
GE disagrees!

 

[wil-yuhm]

Exactly! It also doesn’t help that human body is much more conductive on the inside. Maybe the surgeon should just place a grounding probe next to the kidneys when operating. Lol!

Kinda funny until ECT therapy.
Everything was made funny thereafter!

 

[Lasse]

I have been electrofishing in small streams - I know how its feel when a 1 kg rainbow trout hit your shoulder when its try to escape the field. But in saltwater - its another question. It needs be very high fields - so high that you do not get it with aquarium equipment's.

But for me - is a non important question because I have only one high voltage AC (240 V) piece of equipment in my aquarium (or near) Everything else is 12V - 24 V DC. The 240 V device is a titanium heater and its grounded by construction. DC equipment often "leak" very low fields and you can get an initiating "itch" if you put your hands into the aquarium - no danger but not so pleasant. After connected my titan probe to a grounded socket - these small fields disappear. A grounded titan heater (and it SHOULD be grounded) act as ground probe!

Sincerely Lasse

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

Hi all, I’m having a bit of a confusing situation going on that I need some help understanding.

I recently felt a strong tingle when working in the frag tank and bare feet on concrete. I am usually wearing shoes so never feel a tingle. I did a bit of diagnosing and realized that I am feeling the tingle only when the titanium heaters and or chiller are plugged in. I know from previous experience troubleshooting stray voltage a few years ago that both of these items act as grounding probes. What I mean by that is that I do not read any stray voltage on the voltmeter when either of these items are plugged in. Currently I am only reading about 1 V stray voltage when these items are unplugged and I do not feel the tingle until they are plugged in. I should also mention that these items are plugged into an Apex energy bar and the respective outlets are powered off. So these items are not energized when I am feeling the tingle.

What this is indicating to me is that the Source of the tingle is actually coming from my homes ground through these devices and into the tank. These devices are importing voltage into the tank rather than grounding it out. Does that make sense?

Does this indicate something wrong with the wiring in my home? And is there anything I can do about this other than swapping out the titanium heaters for glass and keeping the chiller unplugged when it isn’t needed? Or do I have this all wrong and something else is going on entirely?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi all, I’m having a bit of a confusing situation going on that I need some help understanding.

I recently felt a strong tingle when working in the frag tank and bare feet on concrete. I am usually wearing shoes so never feel a tingle. I did a bit of diagnosing and realized that I am feeling the tingle only when the titanium heaters and or chiller are plugged in. I know from previous experience troubleshooting stray voltage a few years ago that both of these items act as grounding probes. What I mean by that is that I do not read any stray voltage on the voltmeter when either of these items are plugged in. Currently I am only reading about 1 V stray voltage when these items are unplugged and I do not feel the tingle until they are plugged in. I should also mention that these items are plugged into an Apex energy bar and the respective outlets are powered off. So these items are not energized when I am feeling the tingle.

What this is indicating to me is that the Source of the tingle is actually coming from my homes ground through these devices and into the tank. These devices are importing voltage into the tank rather than grounding it out. Does that make sense?

Does this indicate something wrong with the wiring in my home? And is there anything I can do about this other than swapping out the titanium heaters for glass and keeping the chiller unplugged when it isn’t needed? Or do I have this all wrong and something else is going on entirely?

You have a source of voltage leakage in which water and electricity do not mix and you are the ground. A ground probe will offer a safety but not a resolution. You want to start with sump and unplug return pump. If it stops- thats your culprit. If tingle still present, plug return pump back in. If there is a heater, do the same. If tingle still there and no other electrical components, go to tank and start with power heads and so forth until you locate source

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

You have a source of voltage leakage in which water and electricity do not mix and you are the ground. A ground probe will offer a safety but not a resolution. You want to start with sump and unplug return pump. If it stops- thats your culprit. If tingle still present, plug return pump back in. If there is a heater, do the same. If tingle still there and no other electrical components, go to tank and start with power heads and so forth until you locate source

Yes, I’m familiar with basic stray voltage troubleshooting. What I’m saying is, the chiller and titanium heaters are the source of the tingle, and they are providing the tingle even when the outlet they are plugged into is powered off. What I think this means is my home ground is the source of the tingle via these two grounded items.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Yes, I’m familiar with basic stray voltage troubleshooting. What I’m saying is, the chiller and titanium heaters are the source of the tingle, and they are providing the tingle even when the outlet they are plugged into is powered off. What I think this means is my home ground is the source of the tingle via these two grounded items.

Gotcha and i would check the ground with a meter

 

[BeanAnimal]

What this is indicating to me is that the Source of the tingle is actually coming from my homes ground through these devices and into the tank. These devices are importing voltage into the tank rather than grounding it out. Does that make sense?

No - it does not make sense, but is easily checked. Potential between two ‘ground’ points can exist and current will flow. Drive 2 rods into a field some distance apart and connect them to a meter, current is likely going to flow.


You can’t really measure ‘stray’ voltage the way you are trying. Do you get a voltage reading from neutral to the same ground that the heat or chiller is plugged into? Between the grounds on those receptacles? You may have a fault somewhere else on the circuit or in the power bar, etc. You can check this with a GFCI.

 

[mike550]

Yes, I’m familiar with basic stray voltage troubleshooting. What I’m saying is, the chiller and titanium heaters are the source of the tingle, and they are providing the tingle even when the outlet they are plugged into is powered off. What I think this means is my home ground is the source of the tingle via these two grounded items.

Sounds like something bad happening at the outlet. Get one of those outlet testers and see what it shows.

 

[pserelis]

Why is it that some people refuse to put a grounding probe in their aquarium? I've seen many arguments against using them, some of which are based on what I believe to be bad information. I want to make the case for why every aquarium should have a grounding probe installed.
We have these beautiful aquariums full of salt water into which we place electrically operated equipment. Everyone has heard the phrase "Water and electricity don't mix" and it is especially true of salt water. Yet this doesn't have to be dangerous and a ground probe is key to making this safe.

An electrical shock occurs when current flows through a person. There are three main factors that impact the severity of the shock. The amount of current flowing through the person, the length of time they are being shocked, and the path the current takes through the body. For a shock to occur a person must be touching an energized conductor and a source to ground. The glass and acrylic most aquariums are made from are excellent insulators. If a pump or heater develops a fault in the salt water, it will raise all of the water in the aquarium to the same voltage as is available at the fault, typically close to 115V. If you are touching the metal housing of a light fixture or standing on wet concrete and touch the water, you become the best path for the current to take to get to ground. These shocks are most likely to take the most dangerous path, which is through our heart. It will go into the hand, through the heart, and either out the opposite hand or down through our legs. This is one way the ground probe keeps us safe. Electricity always takes the lowest resistance path to ground. The human body does have some resistance so a properly maintained ground plug will always offer a lower resistance path to ground.

I would also make the argument that the use of a ground plug is important to the health of our marine fish, but not because of a risk of electrical shock. Scientists use electro-fishing techniques to collect or count fish populations by shocking fish. Electric eels hunt prey by shocking them with electricity. So why do I say marine fish are not at risk for being shocked? They live in salt water. Electric eels are a fresh water species and electro-fishing only works fresh water. In a fresh water environment the fish is more conductive than the water just like people are more conductive than air. You cannot shock a marine fish while it is in salt water since the water is more conductive than the fish. This doesn't mean that marine fish aren't affected by electricity.

It is a generalization to say that all of the salt water is at the same voltage in our aquariums. In reality, small differences in potential can exist within the water. Eddy currents of water will cause a difference in voltage. There will be a difference in potential caused by any air bubbles that may touch a fish. While these may not cause shocks, it can cause a serious irritation across the surface of the fish. I would also point out that you do not need to have an electrical fault to have a harmful voltage in your aquarium. Any energized cord either running in the water or along the outside of the tank will create a voltage in the tank using a process called induction. This is why many people see a voltage in their aquariums without having a GFCI breaker trip. A ground probe will prevent any voltage from building up in the aquarium water, protecting our fish from these small voltage differences.

Grounding probes also protect our tank from another problem that is much harder to see and correct. If you have an electrical fault in your tank, there is a high probability that you have exposed copper in your system. This copper will corrode in salt water and the corrosion is accelerated when impacted by electricity. Even if you use a GFCI, the circuit will not trip on a fault until you have a source to ground. A ground probe will immediately provide that path to ground. If you do not have a ground probe installed, you could be leaching copper into your system for days or longer until a path to ground from your water is established.

The one argument against using ground probes I cannot counter is that it could provide a heat source during an electrical fault. If you have an electrical fault in a very narrow resistance range, and do not use GFCI protection, it can act like a heater. I know I wouldn't risk the safety of my family and friends in an effort to avoid this one scenario. I hope after reading this you won't either.

Thanks for this....does the ground probe need to go into a wall socket or can it go into a surge protector outlet?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks for this....does the ground probe need to go into a wall socket or can it go into a surge protector outlet?

I run mine to a grounded outlet and ground screw in receptacle

 

[Lasse]

I use my grounded titan heater as a ground probe!

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Bohemian Waxwing]

I worked in the industry for about 15 years, and many many times I've stuck my hand into a tank and felt that tingle. Sometimes a small zap. The heaters all had grounding prongs. We almost always could trace it back to a bad heater, perhaps a leak or something else (owner was poor and never used the good eheim jagers).

I was always surprised no one ever got anything worse than a small tingle or small shock. Why is that?

 

[Lasse]

The heaters all had grounding prongs

If it was glass heaters - they do not serve as a ground probe even if the heater is connected to a grounded outlet. With titan heaters all the heater surface act as a ground probe

Sincerely Lasse

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

This may have been asked already, so apologies in advance if that’s the case:

1. Would you put one grounding probe in the tank and one in the sump?

2. Is it ok to plug them into a power bar or do they have to be plugged directly into the wall?

3. So if we have grounding probes, do we still need a GFCI?

Great info!