Vectra l1 pump performance and test

[road_runner]

So I been suspecting that my brand new vectra L1(3100gph) is not pushing enough flow. But been lazy to hook it up to a flow meter.
Today I did so, hooked up an apex flow meter and OMG vectra performance was bad.
My vectra that is suppose to be 3100gps was pushing only 380gph at 100% power.
My plumbing setup is simple: 1" pipe to tank bulkhead to ad lock hose.
I did swap test and hooked up my old syncra (900gph) to my existing setup and my flow jumped to 550gph...
My God, I paid around 500$ for vectra and it's doing worst job than 150$ pump...
Super disappointed.
I opened a ticket with ecotech to see what can be done. Will keep you all posted.

Anyone have such experince with vectra L1?

 

[CC13]

How old is the pump? Was its output always seemingly this bad since you installed it?

 

[road_runner]

I got the feedback from eco tech customer service...
" I have reviewed them with the rest of our service team and we have determined that the amount of flow you are getting is due to the amount of plumbing in your sump. The flow meters are going to significantly restrict the Vectras flow rate."

So basically ecotech do not want me to measure flow:)) and want me to simplify my 1"pipe 5 feet head pressure straight to tank return plumbing lol...I guess they want me to lay the tank on the ground for vectra to work.
What a poor pump this is..

 

[CC13]

I got the feedback from eco tech customer service...
" I have reviewed them with the rest of our service team and we have determined that the amount of flow you are getting is due to the amount of plumbing in your sump. The flow meters are going to significantly restrict the Vectras flow rate."

So basically ecotech do not want me to measure flow:)) and want me to simplify my 1"pipe 5 feet head pressure straight to tank return plumbing lol...I guess they want me to lay the tank on the ground for vectra to work.
What a poor pump this is..

The Vectra is rated for up to 20' of head pressure. At a 5' run (which you indicated you have), their flow graph indicates you should be getting around 2,000 GPH. Lets assume your getting 50% less flow because you are crazy like that and have a ton of 90 degree joints (which I assume you don't have since your using flex tubing), that's still at least 1,000 GPH. Also, the output pipe based on the pump is 1", which you are using so its not like you reduced the output pipe sizing.

Using this logic, there is something wrong with the pump, or they drastically exaggerated the flow and/or head pressure rating of this pump.

 

[road_runner]

The Vectra is rated for up to 20' of head pressure. At a 5' run (which you indicated you have), their flow graph indicates you should be getting around 2,000 GPH. Lets assume your getting 50% less flow because you are crazy like that and have a ton of 90 degree joints (which I assume you don't have since your using flex tubing), that's still at least 1,000 GPH. Also, the output pipe based on the pump is 1", which you are using so its not like you reduced the output pipe sizing.

Using this logic, there is something wrong with the pump, or they drastically exaggerated the flow and/or head pressure rating of this pump.

Agree with your logic that's why I am shocked at the rep reply...

 

[Monkeynaut]

How big are your returns into the tank? Are you using LocLine?

 

[road_runner]

How big are your returns into the tank? Are you using LocLine?

Yes am using ad loc line. Plumbing is 1" all the way.
I ended up throwing the vectra aeay and hooked up syncra 5.0 for now. It gave me 900gph on the same setup:)
Just ordered RD 100 watt.
I wish I knew how bad vectra is before I got it..for 100$ more I would have got a red dragon from the beginning...

 

[Monkeynaut]

What size loc line?

 

[CC13]

Yes am using ad loc line. Plumbing is 1" all the way.
I ended up throwing the vectra aeay and hooked up syncra 5.0 for now. It gave me 900gph on the same setup:)
Just ordered RD 100 watt.
I wish I knew how bad vectra is before I got it..for 100$ more I would have got a red dragon from the beginning...

RD pumps are amazing they are the only pumps I use in my system (with the exception of the return pump because I needed a massive external with high head pressure for a basement sump).

You will absolutely not be disappointing.

What size loc line?

The flow still should not be even close to as bad as it is. You are never going to have 1" return line blasting into your display tank. Don't forget he is reading 550 GPH at the flow meter which still isn't even at the return nozzles. At the return nozzles, he is most likely getting less for a pump which indicates he should be getting around 2,000 GPH.

 

[PEP12]

I have a ecotech L1 in each of my tanks, I have to turn them down or I get two much flow, have you calibrated yours correctly ? as demonstrated in their support video,

 

[road_runner]

RD pumps are amazing they are the only pumps I use in my system (with the exception of the return pump because I needed a massive external with high head pressure for a basement sump).

You will absolutely not be disappointing.



The flow still should not be even close to as bad as it is. You are never going to have 1" return line blasting into your display tank. Don't forget he is reading 550 GPH at the flow meter which still isn't even at the return nozzles. At the return nozzles, he is most likely getting less for a pump which indicates he should be getting around 2,000 GPH.

Completely agree with you.
Blaming plumbing that is so straightforward, 1" piping which should handle 2500gph with gravity pressure only not to mention pump pressure is just insane.
The conclusion now is simple
Based on ecotech reply, vectra flow collapse against head pressure, it's not the plumbing, it's the head pressure.
According to ecotech reply, expect a reduction of 80% at head pressure of 5 feet..
What aquarium do not have a head pressure of at least 4 feet:))

Vectra is more of a gimmick that its is an adequate aquarium pump. Do not be fooled by all the other features, the most important thing in a return oump is head pressure, everything else comes after...vectra failed at that..

 

[road_runner]

RD pumps are amazing they are the only pumps I use in my system (with the exception of the return pump because I needed a massive external with high head pressure for a basement sump).

You will absolutely not be disappointing.



The flow still should not be even close to as bad as it is. You are never going to have 1" return line blasting into your display tank. Don't forget he is reading 550 GPH at the flow meter which still isn't even at the return nozzles. At the return nozzles, he is most likely getting less for a pump which indicates he should be getting around 2,000 GPH.

Cc13, may I ask your advice since you use RD..what model would you recommend for 900 to 1200gph?
I love royal execlusive, I have their skimmers since the beginning of times lol. Now I have the bk mini 200 with rds3. But do not have experince in their pumps for return...

 

[road_runner]

I have a ecotech L1 in each of my tanks, I have to turn them down or I get two much flow, have you calibrated yours correctly ? as demonstrated in their support video,

How did you judge that you have too kuch flow? Did you measure it.
I also thought I had adequate flow, until I measured it using neptune, and using industrial grade high end flow meter.

 

[CC13]

Cc13, may I ask your advice since you use RD..what model would you recommend for 900 to 1200gph?
I love royal execlusive, I have their skimmers since the beginning of times lol. Now I have the bk mini 200 with rds3. But do not have experince in their pumps for return...

Personally speaking, I would go with the 150w red dragon only because if I upgraded tanks in the future, the pump can handle the higher flow. You can always dial it back via a gate valve after the outlet port, and really, its only a few hundred dollars more money:
https://premiumaquatics.com/products/red-dragon-3-speedy-150-watt-10v-connection.html


If you wants to just get the pump that would meet your needs now, you could get away with the 100w:
https://premiumaquatics.com/product...3-100w-high-pressure-pump-10v-connection.html

One of the things I despise, is when manufactures lock you in when you buy one product and trying to force you to buy all their stuff. Both Vortech and Neptune do this with their return pumps; and you can't control the Vortech return pumps with the APEX. You can buy the adapter for RD and control all its features with the APEX, or GHL controllers. I love RD and Royal Exclusiv skimmers and pumps, I have used them forever and would never change.

Only reason why I went with a Reeflo Hammerhead was because I needed head pressure of 15+ feet and DC pumps aren't as good as AC with higher pressure applications.

 

[road_runner]

Personally speaking, I would go with the 150w red dragon only because if I upgraded tanks in the future, the pump can handle the higher flow. You can always dial it back via a gate valve after the outlet port, and really, its only a few hundred dollars more money:
https://premiumaquatics.com/products/red-dragon-3-speedy-150-watt-10v-connection.html


If you wants to just get the pump that would meet your needs now, you could get away with the 100w:
https://premiumaquatics.com/product...3-100w-high-pressure-pump-10v-connection.html

One of the things I despise, is when manufactures lock you in when you buy one product and trying to force you to buy all their stuff. Both Vortech and Neptune do this with their return pumps; and you cant control the Vortech return pumps with the APEX. You can buy the adapter for RD and control all its features with the APEX, or GHL controllers.

Could not agree more.
I have such a bone with neptune I hate what they are doing. I started using them less and less. Now o use my neptune for ph and temp control only.
I control other equipments by their native apps.
Also instead of wasting so kuch on buying their trident tester and change all my neptune and spend like 850$ I got a kh guardian which I been using for 2 years now and absolutely love.


Thanks for the infos

 

[That Crusso Kid]

Personally speaking, I would go with the 150w red dragon only because if I upgraded tanks in the future, the pump can handle the higher flow. You can always dial it back via a gate valve after the outlet port, and really, its only a few hundred dollars more money:
https://premiumaquatics.com/products/red-dragon-3-speedy-150-watt-10v-connection.html


If you wants to just get the pump that would meet your needs now, you could get away with the 100w:
https://premiumaquatics.com/product...3-100w-high-pressure-pump-10v-connection.html

One of the things I despise, is when manufactures lock you in when you buy one product and trying to force you to buy all their stuff. Both Vortech and Neptune do this with their return pumps; and you can't control the Vortech return pumps with the APEX. You can buy the adapter for RD and control all its features with the APEX, or GHL controllers. I love RD and Royal Exclusiv skimmers and pumps, I have used them forever and would never change.

Only reason why I went with a Reeflo Hammerhead was because I needed head pressure of 15+ feet and DC pumps aren't as good as AC with higher pressure applications.

Gotta love the Reeflo! Have yet to see a more reliable, powerful pump available. Well, unless you start to get into more commercial pumps for a lot more money.

Could not agree more.
I have such a bone with neptune I hate what they are doing. I started using them less and less. Now o use my neptune for ph and temp control only.
I control other equipments by their native apps.
Also instead of wasting so kuch on buying their trident tester and change all my neptune and spend like 850$ I got a kh guardian which I been using for 2 years now and absolutely love.


Thanks for the infos

IMHO - Ecotech pumps are garbage. I've read many a horror story about them. Mostly that they burn up after using them for a very short while. I think I saw your review of the Vectra L1 you just posted on BRS, right? If so, might be a good idea to also include your experience with their customer service in your review. As for "playing well with others"... this type of "proprietary" stuff has been going on since the beginning of the industrial age. However, it's 2019 and quickly becoming an "open source" world. I think that companies that continue to operate under the "does not play well with others" business model will eventually get left behind. There are many reasons I believe this but that is a topic unto itself that could be expounded upon exponentially.

Have either of you looked into building your own controller(s)? The reef pi is doing quite a great job on many people's systems. Additionally, new features are being added continuously.

 

[Monkeynaut]

The flow still should not be even close to as bad as it is. You are never going to have 1" return line blasting into your display tank. Don't forget he is reading 550 GPH at the flow meter which still isn't even at the return nozzles. At the return nozzles, he is most likely getting less for a pump which indicates he should be getting around 2,000 GPH.

The flow doesn’t change anywhere along the length of pipe. Pressure does though. To change flow you have to change the pump characteristics or the system characteristics. I am asking if there is an easy fix we can make to his system so this headache can go away for him.
If the OP only has one 1/2” loc line then he might as well have used 1/2” pipe the whole way.
I just want to make sure he used two 3/4” loc line returns. If he didn’t then that simple change will cause a huge flow jump.
The area of a 1” pipe is .79” squared. The area of 2 1/2” pipes together is still only .4” squared which is still half the area of the rest of the pipe.

 

[road_runner]

The flow doesn’t change anywhere along the length of pipe. Pressure does though. To change flow you have to change the pump characteristics or the system characteristics. I am asking if there is an easy fix we can make to his system so this headache can go away for him.
If the OP only has one 1/2” loc line then he might as well have used 1/2” pipe the whole way.
I just want to make sure he used two 3/4” loc line returns. If he didn’t then that simple change will cause a huge flow jump.
The area of a 1” pipe is .79” squared. The area of 2 1/2” pipes together is still only .4” squared which is still half the area of the rest of the pipe.

Actually flow change based on the bottle necks. So earlier comment is true. If you have multiple segment pipe with diffrent OD, flow will change after each segment based on the diameter and the length.
The length is what represent the head pressure. It's all part of the cascades hydrodybamic equation.
Now yo anderr your question, ofcourse am using 3/4 inch return at the line loc.
There is another simple way to measure the flow through your return for anyone who is wondering and do not have flow meter at their return:
Water coming up the return=water coming down from the overflow, so if you have one drain pipe(let's assume u run bean anvils with one main drain only and 2 emergincy) see how much you need to close the drain pipe. If you need to close the drain pipe alot to achieve stable flow, simply look at what your drain diameter can handle with gravity pressure, say its 1", it should handle like 1000gph gravity pressure. If you need to have the drain fully open then your return is bit above 1000gph. In my case what made me suspect the flow and pushed me to actually measure it was that I needed to close the drain quite alot to achieve steady state. So I put a flow meter on vectra and walla...the flow rate was 380..
Now I have syncra, the flow reads 900gph, I had to open my drain much more to achieve steady state...
Again all the data and testing I have done indicate the horrible job vectra do when there is a head pressure. Not to mention the customer service admitting themself.

Hope this helps out.

 

[Monkeynaut]

Actually flow change based on the bottle necks. So earlier comment is true.
Hope this helps out.

The previous comment was that flow at the return to the tank could be different than what is measured at the flow meter. This would never be the case. The flow at the first inch of pipe off the pump is the same as the flow at the tank returns. The only change is pressure.

 

[CC13]

The previous comment was that flow at the return to the tank could be different than what is measured at the flow meter. This would never be the case. The flow at the first inch of pipe off the pump is the same as the flow at the tank returns. The only change is pressure.

This is correct I made a mistake.... water flow does not change in a pipe; it is the same throughout. I stand corrected.

Regardless, pushing 550 GPH after 5 feet is nowhere close to what the pump should be pushing at 100% power. The pump isn't working right or those flow numbers from Vortech are largely inflated. That pump is rated for 2,000 GPH at 5 feet, 550 GPH is 75% less output than is advertised for that pump.