Velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum)

Discussion in 'Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis' started by Humblefish, Oct 14, 2015.

  1. albano1402

    albano1402 Member

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    I got velvet into my main display and one of my fish that I was unable to get out survived. He had his first symptoms over 2 weeks ago, so I assume he has overcome it. My main concern is how to get rid of it out of the main display for future fish. I don't have a QT tank and will add one, but if it is already into the main display, how can I remove it to not infect future fish?
     

  2. melypr1985

    melypr1985 totally addicted R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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    To remove the velvet from your display you have to starve it out. You do this by putting all your fish in a hospital tank and leave the DT fallow for 6 weeks. Be sure to treat ALL your fish for velvet so you don't reinfect your DT or your other fish. :)
     
  3. Humblefish

    Humblefish Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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    When I hear that a fish survived velvet, my first thought is are you sure you actually had velvet? A small percentage of fish are capable of building up either natural or temporary immunity (usually 6 months max) to velvet; these are usually clownfish IME.
     
  4. albano1402

    albano1402 Member

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    I have tried to trap this guy and due to all the rockwork, I could never get him out. He has survived over 2 weeks, so I figured he must have survived because the other 2 fish died within days.

    If the only way to remove it is to starve it out, then I am really going to need to find a way to get him out without tearing up all my SPS. I was hoping there might be another way.

    I have a picture of the fish for reference. I know he looks bad, but he actually looked worse last week.

    20151204_132624.jpg
     
  5. Humblefish

    Humblefish Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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    @albano1402 That actually looks to be ich to me, not velvet. Velvet dots are actually a lot smaller than that. Don't get me wrong, that is a very bad case of ich. Something must have enabled the life cycle to reproduce stupendously to be that badly infested.

    As far as I am concerned, going fallow is the only tried & true method for eliminating ich from a DT. I consider this to still be highly experimental at this point: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diatom-filter-for-treating-external-parasites.212429/
     
  6. albano1402

    albano1402 Member

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    I suspected going fallow might be the only sure way to ensure it was gone. I'll have to make it a mission this weekend to try and get this guy out and establish a QT.

    My goal is to ensure I don't get this again. So action:

    • Establish a long term QT to avoid this in the future.
    • Get this fish out and treat for ich in the meantime while tank is fallowing out.
    • Leave the tank fallow for 9 weeks. (hoping this is long enough)
    Thanks all for the feedback and support.
     
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  7. melypr1985

    melypr1985 totally addicted R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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    I like your plan. That poor guy looks just awful. Good luck to you!
     
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  8. Humblefish

    Humblefish Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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    Just wanted to add alprazo's input to this thread. He is a friend from another forum and actually is the one who got me started using CP:

    I just wanted to comment on velvet. It has an ability to infect like no other, the lethality is extremely high and the course is surprisingly fast. It probably has caused more people to leave the hobby than any other disease with total wipe outs within days of exposure. Often it is too late once you even think your fish may have it. That said, with practice and experimentation, I have learned how to save many fish from even late stages of it disease.

    Velvet kills like ich, another other single celled parasite, by causing inflammation and eventually edema (swelling) of gills. The thickened gill inhibits oxygen exchange. The fish breathes faster and harder in an attempt to increase the exchange, but in doing so, metabolism increases as fish demands more oxygen. This viscous cycle ends by the fish fatiguing and finally suffocating or having a heart attack due to lack of oxygen and tremendous cardiac strain.

    Several steps can be taken to break this cycle and salvage the fish.

    First it is important to decrease metabolic demand and this can be done by:

    - Decreasing the temperature - I shoot for 70 or lower over several hours.
    - Decreasing the Specific Gravity to 1.015 (can be done immediately)

    Next you want to increase the oxygen saturation in the water. This will promote better exchange. I aim for a 200% dissolved oxygen level with my YSI DO meter. (Measurement is not 100% necessary).

    - Pure oxygen is easily bought from either a welding supply store or a medical supply house. Oxygen is cheap and useful for several applications like power outages and transporting. You also want an airstone that produces a superfine bubble. They are typically made for pure gas and have warnings about using air.
    - Temperature reduction - This not only reduces metabolism in the fish, but it will also increase the waters capacity to carry dissolved oxygen.


    Edema reduction: Steroids


    Just like giving a shot in the knee - it helps to reduce the swelling.


    - Intramuscular dexamethasone with an estimated dose of 1-2 mg/kg into the muscle on the side of the dorsal ridge. (impossible to be precise in small fish)

    I sounds difficult but it is not. A tuberculin syringe with a 27 gauge needle to draw up the solution and a 30 gauge needle to inject.


    Following the above protocol, I have witnessed more than a couple of fish recover from assured demise.

    I also recommend treating with chloroquine. Formalin unfortunately is an irritant and theoretically could worsen the gill edema.

    BTW - the same protocol can be use with ICH.
     
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  9. seastar

    seastar Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    Thank you so much for this and your help today @Humblefish. I lost one fish immediately but we knew that was going to happen as I woke up to it in very poor condition. I ran out and got the Ruby Reef Rally and also some Ruby Reef Kick-Ich. They say you can treat with both together, I am curious if you have tried that in the 75-90 min. step two you outlined before. I am in the middle of trying it, so I guess I can let you know. I think I'm going to have to setup a second 20 QT (I already have them) due to the amount of fish I had to take out of my tank.
     
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  10. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    What the heck is ruby reef rally?

    By the way humble I can tell you that many wrasse seem unaffected by velvet. I still don't know why the non burrowing wrasses or wrasse that don't use mucous cocoons to sleep in could have done so but they did. I've had a melanarus, green "coris", banana, and red coris survive in velvet for 6 months before I could accurately ID it. This also happened in a tank 10 years ago when in a few days it wiped everything out except a melanarus wrasse I could not catch. I gave up and left it for 6 months until I could afford to buy more fish and start over (I actually intended to leave the hobby). Obviously I ran the thing fallow 6 weeks and it was gone and I treated the melanarus with coppersafe.
     
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  11. seastar

    seastar Well-Known Member Build Thread Contributor

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    "Rally is a copper free water treatment for the control and elimination of external parasites in marine and freshwater aquaria.
    It is safe and effective for rapid control of dangerous and destructive infestations such as marine velvet"

    There words, not mine, but the treatment of marine velvet sure seemed appealing.

    In Humble's step 2, the active ingredient is "effective against both protozoans and bacterial infections".
     
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  12. Humblefish

    Humblefish Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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    From what I've been told, Kick Ich is herbal junk so probably no harm in mixing the two.

    Product which contains acriflavine, an alternative for formalin. Rally might be the only useful product that Ruby Reef sells. ;) I tell people to look for Rally in an emergency situation because some LFS actually carry it. Straight acriflavine you have to order online.

    Wrasses have a very thick mucous coat, so it doesn't surprise me. Also, some fish seem capable of developing a 6 month immunity to velvet; however they are still carriers and can infect other fish during that time.
     
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  13. melypr1985

    melypr1985 totally addicted R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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    Hey bobby.... what brand exactly are you getting online? I'm looking as I see some Chinese products with koi on them and ruby reef rally. That's about it. Am I on the right track here?
     
  14. Humblefish

    Humblefish Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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  15. melypr1985

    melypr1985 totally addicted R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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  16. Humblefish

    Humblefish Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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  17. melypr1985

    melypr1985 totally addicted R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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  18. Humblefish

    Humblefish Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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    Sneak some into the LFS you work. ;) It's great for treating clowns with brook and providing temporary relief for velvet. I know I've read some people say it's great on a variety of FW ailments as well.
     
  19. melypr1985

    melypr1985 totally addicted R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor Moderator Emeritus

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    I'll do that for sure. Keep it secret and let the fish have miraculous recoveries.
     
  20. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Article Contributor Expert Contributor Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    I wish cp was more readily available
     
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