Vortex at Return Pipe Output in Display Tank

[Beancounter27]

Hi All,

Let me pre-apologize if this has been addressed before, but I am having difficulty finding a solution to my specific problem. The threads that come up in my search typically are for microbubbles coming from the sump. This is NOT my dilemma though, hope you can help.

Setup: Running a 90g display. I have the Ecotech Vectra M1 as my return pump, FULLY SUBMERGED in my return chamber of my Trigger sump. My overflow box is the EShopps 1200, with dual 1" Utubes, with no bubbles in them, dual 1" drains with DIY stockman pipes in both.The return pipe is a single generic duckbill U-tube with a small filter floss to cover the siphon break hole to prevent spraying.

Problem: The Vectra is a heck of a powerful pump. I understand this. However, it was turning over water just fine for months. Then I had an Ich outbreak (whole other discussion), so I'm fishless in the display, as they are being treated with TTM and QT. Back to the issue, AT THE LIP OF THE DUCKBILL, the vortex at the surface of display's water level is so much more frequent. I try to dial back the pump, but still have the vortex at random intervals.

If I raise the overflow box water level, the Utubes form bubbles in them and I have to reset at least one Utube every 3-4 days or so. But since I dropped the water level of the overflow box, bubbles in the Utubes are generally nonexistent. However, this brings the water level down closer to the lip of the duckbill on the pipe inflow.

The inflow suction vortex is extremely loud and annoying, and even more annoying that I'm having a hard time finding a solution. I pray you can help me out, and again, apologize profusely as I'm sure this is addressed elsewhere. I have been seeking a solution for this for 2 months now, with no avail.

Thanks in advance.

 

[aquaman30k]

Have you tried matching the flow of the primary drain to the Vectra by valving back the primary drain?

It sounds like your drains are open which is pulling a vacuum and causing the vortex on the surface.

Look up herbie and bean animal overflow diagrams. That will better explain what I'm suggesting.

 

[Engloid]

If I understand right, you're getting bubbles into the UP pipes, and those bubbles are formed by water coming INTO the overflow box (which hangs inside the tank).

Try putting a sponge inside the box so that water hits it and the bubbles will go up, instead of through the sponge to the U pipe.

 

[mfinn]

AT THE LIP OF THE DUCKBILL, the vortex at the surface of display's water level is so much more frequent. I try to dial back the pump, but still have the vortex at random intervals.
.

You are going to have to figure a way to get the point of which the water is flowing back into the tank, lower in the tank, along with slowing the flow.
Maybe point it down?

 

[takeastabatit]

When I had m1 set on intervals the pump would go up and I would drain the water out of my sump.
So I set it at a steady flow and set my powerheads to random.

 

[Beancounter27]

Thank you ALL for your suggestions.

So, I slept on it one more night and think I have found my solution after the couple of months of my frustration. Here's what I did and in at least the first 15 minutes (normally 2-3 vortexes)...NONE! We'll see how it kept up when I get home from work.

I raised the Eshopps outflow box again within the display. Now, I know this caused bubbles in the Utubes in the past, however, I used a piece of styrofoam in conjunction with the leveling screw to make the in-tank box more level and fill with more water. Now, by doing this, this accomplished several things.

1. Raised the display waterline by another 0.25" to 0.5", thereby distancing the the duckbill further than the surface of the water. If this is true, I may be able to remove that GFO ridden filter floss for the siphon break hole, since it should be under water now.
2. By leaning the in-tank overflow more into the display, this kept the high flow into the box, not letting the opportunity for the Utube to "run dry." The in-tank box is now filled at least 75% instead of 25% or less as in prior months when the air pockets got into the Utubes.
3. By raising the in-tank water level, this of course meant less water in the sump, so my ATO went buckwild pumping in what felt like 7-8 gallons. Will have to check salinity when I get home too.

30k - Thanks! I was thinking about the drainage too, but I didn't want to run the risk of having the overflow box flood in case I misjudged. Growing up, I always understood that the outflow should always be measured greater than the inflow to prevent flooding.
Eng - Thanks! I think you were addressing the bubbles in the overflow Utubes, but a while ago, through this forum I believe, that air pocket were getting into the tubes because each pipe was out competing the other in the overflow. This is why I lowered the in-tank box. However, I realized this morning that this only lowers the water line surface and does not add to the flow into the box, only leveling the in-tank box (not the weir (I think it's called)) can keep the box full enough to keep both pipes filled.
mfinn - Thanks! I finally did find that rhythm, and didn't have to slow the flow. I did point the nozzle down before also, it still vortexed before this morning's solution. Just have a bald spot in the tank. LOL. But we're on the same page.
stab - Thanks! Not sure what you are addressing. But as mentioned, think I finally found the rhythm and the solution was the in-tank overflow box being leveled.

Well, let's take a look when I get home. No news will be good news.

Thanks again everyone!!
-B