Warning: Use Vibrant at your own risk

[Karen00]

I think that everybody knows this, but this all started out as some little-engine-that-could changing the world with their organic aquarium product that they did all by themselves in the vein a a typical American success story ala Steve Jobs soldering his first Apple Computer in his garage (myth too, actually). They had some genius idea that nobody else could conceive or figure out... then it became a house of cards. We Work and Theranos come to mind recently?

This is why I want nothing less than full and complete intolerance for any of this kind of behavior. Penalties need to be harsh. Public needs to be unmerciful. The next person who wishes to do something like this needs to see a fierce landscape with smart people who will challenge any fraud or BS. I appreciate that this board has allowed this to continue, including the disgust and comedy since it shows a level of intolerance. I also appreciate that this board has allowed members to show their disgust with members acting as apologists or excuse makers, since this is important too. I, so far, appreciate the larger aquarium retailers taking the product of their shelves and hope that they issue an apology, post mortem and change their principles based on what we learned to be less of shills in the future.

My agenda has always been the hobby and humanity. I am not naïve enough to think that this will never happen again in the hobby or in the world, but if this stops a few would-be scammers in my sphere, then I guess that it was worth it.

Maybe I am the last person where integrity matters, but if so, then I can live with that.

I agree about much harsher penalties for acts like this. In some cases the fines/penalties are laughable considering the money these companies make and the fallout they leave in their wake! They need to see a fire and brimstone landscape in their future if they attempt it. One good thing about forums like this and social media is that the digital age makes it harder for them to escape their past.

 

[Acalin]

A visiting agency does not demand ones full attention for 12 hours, or prevent him from logging onto R2R for 5 minutes and posting an explanation.

Totally agree with this and wanted to chime in earlier to say the same thing but work got in the way.

EVEN IF they were there the whole day, I find it hard to believe they couldn't find 2 minutes in the evening to at least say something like "we see your comments and we'll come with an answer by... <insert date>"

They might have been tired and completely drained (no pun intended here with earlier dispute on this thread abput disposal, drains, etc.) after that 12 hour visit (but then again, I'm wondering what EPA official is going to work overtime when he can come back the next day).

They still had time to respond to RHF's inquiry so what would have been an extra 2 minutes to respond here to the rest of us as well?
It would had been a good opportunity to show they still care about their customers and they do take things serious.
Just ignoring the big crowd and corresponding through other party is showing how much they care and respect us as customers.

 

[rmorris_14]

Totally agree with this and wanted to chime in earlier to say the same thing but work got in the way.

EVEN IF they were there the whole day, I find it hard to believe they couldn't find 2 minutes in the evening to at least say something like "we see your comments and we'll come with an answer by... <insert date>"

They might have been tired and completely drained (no pun intended here with earlier dispute on this thread abput disposal, drains, etc.) after that 12 hour visit (but then again, I'm wondering what EPA official is going to work overtime when he can come back the next day).

They still had time to respond to RHF's inquiry so what would have been an extra 2 minutes to respond here to the rest of us as well?
It would had been a good opportunity to show they still care about their customers and they do take things serious.
Just ignoring the big crowd and corresponding through other party is showing how much they care and respect us as customers.

"They might have been tired and completely drained (no pun intended here with earlier dispute on this thread abput disposal, drains, etc.)"

::inserts non existent cry laugh face emoji::::

The "drain guy" references just keep making my LOL today.

 

[Doctorgori]

A new season is a comming

 

[kev.2013]

"They might have been tired and completely drained (no pun intended here with earlier dispute on this thread abput disposal, drains, etc.)"

::inserts non existent cry laugh face emoji::::

The "drain guy" references just keep making my LOL today.

If you view their profile they haven’t been “seen” since 3/13….

 

[DopamineKata]

If you view their profile they haven’t been “seen” since 3/13….

I'm be willing to bet they've had a sock puppet in this thread.

 

[Sean Clark]

If you view their profile they haven’t been “seen” since 3/13….

That was the same day they got called out for lurking and not commenting... Also happens to be when all of the redit users started showing up...

@UWC how about that update? You're clearly still lurking on this thread.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That was the same day they got called out for lurking and not commenting... Also happens to be when all of the redit users started showing up...

Curious he (they?) lost interest...

 

[LRT]

Lesson observed. I guess its true that you really can't bring slappy hands to a fist fight and expect to win lol.

 

[rmorris_14]

"They" were last seen Mar 14, 2022. They day after UWC lurking.

 

[jeffww]

Fascinating. 78 pages of evidence of malfeascence. A case study on when saying nothing is the best move.

 

[Lyss]

That was the same day they got called out for lurking and not commenting... Also happens to be when all of the redit users started showing up...

Wait. So a bunch of new users began posting to cast doubt in the other thread and he was lurking while that was going on? Oh yikes the optics there are not at all great.

 

[MnFish1]

I am going to (probably mistakenly) repeat what I said several pages ago. The WARNING - seems to stand for itself. The rest of the suppositions, criticisms of posters (considered irritating), etc and the company itself - that keep being repeated are a pile on. I have said - I would not use vibrant in a reef tank again - so I'm not on either team. This thread demeans R2R IMHO - and the people that continuously post the same negative posts. Anyone can read it. -and see the opinions. I thought I had unwatched it - but it showed up again. Let it go. Let the EPA investigate. Let the company respond. IF you dont want to use the product - dont lol. Its frankly hilarious to me - that these are the trending posts on R2R

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Wait. So a bunch of new users began posting to cast doubt in the other thread and he was lurking while that was going on? Oh yikes the optics there are not at all great.

Its complicated and not proven who the poster was or if he was connected to UWC at all, but the posts were moderately sophisticated, and seemed mostly focused on casting doubt on everything in the science thread rather than trying to find a scientific truth (in my opinion only, I apologize in advance if that is not a correct analysis).

He may have been genuinely curious in the topic and just came across oddly, or may have been more than that. It is very challenging and time intensive to explain away every random "explanation" that someone throws out, but he encountered a substantial wall of expertise from a sizeable number of expert chemists and other scientists that would not normally be found in an internet hobby forum. The fact that the alternative ideas did not take hold may have been why he lost interest.

Here's a particularly pointed exchange:

Understanding Vibrant: Algaefix, Polixetonium Chloride / Busan 77

Courtney Aldrich said: Choline-based ionic liquids do not have any useful algaecidal activity for aquaria. Why not? Response: Choline-based ionic liquids have no reported potent algaecidal activity at low concentrations (below 1%). By contrast, polyoxetonium chloride is a potent algaecide with...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Lyss]

Its complicated and not proven who the poster was or if he was connected to UWC at all, but the posts were moderately sophisticated, and seemed mostly focused on casting doubt on everything in the science thread rather than trying to find a scientific truth (in my opinion only, I apologize in advance if that is not a correct analysis).

He may have been genuinely curious in the topic and just came across oddly, or may have been more than that. It is very challenging and time intensive to explain away every random "explanation" that someone throws out, but he encountered a substantial wall of expertise from a sizeable number of expert chemists and other scientists that would not normally be found in an internet hobby forum. The fact that the alternative ideas did not take hold may have been why he lost interest.

Here's a particularly pointed exchange:

Understanding Vibrant: Algaefix, Polixetonium Chloride / Busan 77

Courtney Aldrich said: Choline-based ionic liquids do not have any useful algaecidal activity for aquaria. Why not? Response: Choline-based ionic liquids have no reported potent algaecidal activity at low concentrations (below 1%). By contrast, polyoxetonium chloride is a potent algaecide with...

www.reef2reef.com

I just went back to that thread, found March 13 and read. All I can say is wow.

Edit: And yes, I understand nothing is proven regarding the intentions of the new accounts or what (or who) sent them here, just saying the optics of more than one new member with no record of posts other than in that one thread doing that while UWC was lurking aren't great. I would at least hope if one was going to orchestrate something like that they would have the common sense to be a bit more sophisticated about it lol

 

[areefer01]

Devil's advocate here for a minute but have any of you had an on-site visit from OSHA or the EPA?

For clarity - that you personally are being asked questions?

 

[Sean Clark]

Devil's advocate here for a minute but have any of you had an on-site visit from OSHA or the EPA?

For clarity - that you personally are being asked questions?

I have had this expertise with OSHA before. It was pretty harsh. I was just a low level worker at the time and they were asking me questions that I was never trained on. I felt stupid and talked down to.

I was working in a space and the guy pulled a light meter out of his pocket, then asked me if I could see ok. I said yes, I can see just fine. He measured the light and determined that there was not sufficient lighting for me to work. I don't know the numbers that he got but it was all pretty ridiculous to me at the time. They shut down the work and we had to bring in supplemental lighting prior to work resuming.

Did that make me safer? No. Was there enough light to provide a safe working environment? Apparently not.

Regulations are what they are and they have to draw a line somewhere I guess.

This is a far stretch from saying that algaecide is bacteria though.

 

[jeffww]

I just went back to that thread, found March 13 and read. All I can say is wow.

Edit: And yes, I understand nothing is proven regarding the intentions of the new accounts or what (or who) sent them here, just saying the optics of more than one new member with no record of posts other than in that one thread doing that while UWC was lurking aren't great. I would at least hope if one was going to orchestrate something like that they would have the common sense to be a bit more sophisticated about it lol

Not only that but the talking points used were identical to those raised by uwc. I’m impressed that a new user had so much gumption to wade through a 4 months old 50+ page thread and latch on to a shred of (wrong) information like that.

 

[Malcontent]

 

[LRT]

Devil's advocate here for a minute but have any of you had an on-site visit from OSHA or the EPA?

For clarity - that you personally are being asked questions?

Yessir. Both EPA and OSHA a handful of times. I have to ro renew EPA every 3 years. I couldn't imagine what repercussions would be for this kind of violation but have seen 300k in fines and subcontractors lose license for minor infractions regarding a little fugitive dust and not tieing off to roofs and such. This one here is different level for sure judging by what they actually showed up for.