Warning: Use Vibrant at your own risk

[KStatefan]

Devil's advocate here for a minute but have any of you had an on-site visit from OSHA or the EPA?

For clarity - that you personally are being asked questions?

Yes

OSHA, department of ag, KDHE

 

[rmorris_14]

Someone saying “OSHA” on one of our jobs sites is the equivalent of saying, Voldemort or beetlejuice 3x. ;Muted

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The policy at places I’ve worked is that if the FDA shows up for an inspection, follow a protocol that reads like a bomb defusing plan. Call this person. Say nothing. Do nothing except sign them in. Show them nothing except what you are directed to show. Volunteer nothing…

 

[areefer01]

So those of us having been in that position know how the day could go. That was all I was getting at. Playing devils advocate is all.

Edit: and thanks to those that have been through it and replied.

 

[GillMeister]

The policy at places I’ve worked is that if the FDA shows up for an inspection, follow a protocol that reads like a bomb defusing plan. Call this person. Say nothing. Do nothing except sign them in. Show them nothing except what you are directed to show. Volunteer nothing…

Yes. Exactly. An FDA audit is what you could describe as a 'legally fraught situation'. There is simply nothing you can do or say that will improve things so just stay quiet and out of the way.

 

[polyppal]

Its frankly hilarious to me - that these are the trending posts on R2R

Tell me about it... We need someone to put a hippo tang in a nano QUICK!

 

[GillMeister]

Hey, if there's a silver lining in this story it's that Lou Ekus and Tropic Marin can catch their breath for a while.

 

[polyppal]

Hey, if there's a silver lining in this story it's that Lou Ekus and Tropic Marin can catch their breath for a while.

^ The TM team since this blew up...

 

[elysics]

Gotta say, this is some real high quality forum drama. It's got it all, real science, crimes, trolls, memes, federal agencies, drains, magic potions, waiting for the next episode, watching the trainwreck together with a community

 

[a.t.t.r]

Gotta say, this is some real high quality forum drama. It's got it all, real science, crimes, trolls, memes, federal agencies, drains, magic potions, waiting for the next episode, watching the trainwreck together with a community

Feels like between episodes of Game of Thrones back when it was relevant.

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

The policy at places I’ve worked is that if the FDA shows up for an inspection, follow a protocol that reads like a bomb defusing plan. Call this person. Say nothing. Do nothing except sign them in. Show them nothing except what you are directed to show. Volunteer nothing…

Same for us in aviation. Don't volunteer info, don't go above and beyond and if your not the safety manager or environmental coordinator, DO NOT talk to them @ ALL.

 

[polyppal]

Feels like between episodes of Game of Thrones back when it was relevant.

I hope it doesn't end up being as disappointing as GOT in the finale Like hopefully Jeff @UWC doesn't end up on the iron reef...

 

[polyppal]

Gotta say, this is some real high quality forum drama. It's got it all, real science, crimes, trolls, memes, federal agencies, drains, magic potions, waiting for the next episode, watching the trainwreck together with a community

 

[elysics]

Feels like between episodes of Game of Thrones back when it was relevant.

I just thought exactly that as well. Great to have that feeling back, wasn't expecting that from such a niche hobby

 

[Karen00]

Its complicated and not proven who the poster was or if he was connected to UWC at all, but the posts were moderately sophisticated, and seemed mostly focused on casting doubt on everything in the science thread rather than trying to find a scientific truth (in my opinion only, I apologize in advance if that is not a correct analysis).

He may have been genuinely curious in the topic and just came across oddly, or may have been more than that. It is very challenging and time intensive to explain away every random "explanation" that someone throws out, but he encountered a substantial wall of expertise from a sizeable number of expert chemists and other scientists that would not normally be found in an internet hobby forum. The fact that the alternative ideas did not take hold may have been why he lost interest.

Here's a particularly pointed exchange:

Understanding Vibrant: Algaefix, Polixetonium Chloride / Busan 77

Courtney Aldrich said: Choline-based ionic liquids do not have any useful algaecidal activity for aquaria. Why not? Response: Choline-based ionic liquids have no reported potent algaecidal activity at low concentrations (below 1%). By contrast, polyoxetonium chloride is a potent algaecide with...

www.reef2reef.com

I don't know how I missed that thread in its entirety but I just read it and that portion of the thread did get a little weird and twisty. Now I understand some of the comments here. Haha. It looks like that person said adios to R2R. I haven't gotten to the end of that thread but did the person even have a reef tank? I might've missed that part. Never a full moment here. ;-)

 

[doubleshot00]

I was just told by Someone to use this product in my brand new tank to avoid algae. Then I got on here and found this huge thread. I think ill wait.

My question is or if it has been answered yet as this thread is massive. What about Microbacter7 or Microbacter clean??? Is that another product that could be smoke in mirrors?

 

[Karen00]

Yessir. Both EPA and OSHA a handful of times. I have to ro renew EPA every 3 years. I couldn't imagine what repercussions would be for this kind of violation but have seen 300k in fines and subcontractors lose license for minor infractions regarding a little fugitive dust and not tieing off to roofs and such. This one here is different level for sure judging by what they actually showed up for.

Given algaecides can't be sold in pet stores/LFS here in Canada and Vibrant is on the shelves here I'm assuming it will have to be pulled and I wonder if UWC will face fines from Canada/Other countries as well. I wonder who informs other countries about this. Is it the EPA? I doubt it would be left to the company who has the violations against them.

 

[a.t.t.r]

I was just told by Someone to use this product in my brand new tank to avoid algae. Then I got on here and found this huge thread. I think ill wait.

My question is or if it has been answered yet as this thread is massive. What about Microbacter7 or Microbacter clean??? Is that another product that could be smoke in mirrors?

Don’t try to avoid it. Just ride it out. As long as you don’t over feed it won’t be bad or long. Yes mb7 is bacteria and has been cultured. However it is kinda pointless just get some live rock to seed the tank.

if you use vibrant your tank will be addicted and you will get Dino’s the second you stop and that is worse then any algae.

 

[jda]

My question is or if it has been answered yet as this thread is massive. What about Microbacter7 or Microbacter clean??? Is that another product that could be smoke in mirrors?

You don't need any of that. The bacteria that come from your fish guts, live rock, frags, sand from another tank, or the like, are enough. You need some way to add in carbonate and calcium (maybe magnesium) and you can get the rest of the traces from water changes. Otherwise, you don't need anything else that comes in a bottle. Most of it is junk, although not on a mislabeled algaecide level, some of it might be OK. Some of these might be able to cut down some waiting time, but most other things in bottles that actually work can often lead to other unintended consequences. Some of it can be OK for a very acute reason for people whose tanks are otherwise stable and they just need a small tweak here or there.

You could have a great tank and never supplement anything out of a bottle ever. Saving up that money on additives and buying a pack of real live would jump start and sustain your tank on an infinitely higher level.

 

[LRT]

Given algaecides can't be sold in pet stores/LFS here in Canada and Vibrant is on the shelves here I'm assuming it will have to be pulled and I wonder if UWC will face fines from Canada/Other countries as well. I wonder who informs other countries about this. Is it the EPA? I doubt it would be left to the company who has the violations against them.

I dont know. Honestly my knowledge with EPA rules and regulations is very limited to my niche in construction.
Id start with google search for Canada equivalent to EPA and fill out violation form and link them back to this thread. Sounds like EPA has active investigation so I'd imagine it shouldn't be too hard for Canada to pick it up.