We finally tested the Black Box LED... Compare notes? | BRStv Investigates

[Antics]

I don't know why @dz6t is repeatedly spreading that Ecotech products are made in China. To my knowledge this is simply untrue.

Ecotech and AI are merged in the same company. Both companies manufacturer their products in America. Ecotech's primary warehouse is in Pennsylvania and AI's primary warehouse is in Iowa. This information is available on Aqua Illumination's website and has been confirmed by Ecotech support reps.

Can you elaborate on what made in China means in relation to these companies? I understand you're talking about assembly but I just want a clear explanation if possible.

Thanks

 

[Wh00pS32]

The way understand it is that Ecotech's parts are manufactured in China and shipped to the US where Ecotech assembles them.
Mike Paletta posted a couple of pics on a Reef Builders article he wrote on Ecotech and he has toured their facility,
.

 

[Antics]

That makes more sense. Thanks for the info/photos!

 

[dz6t]

The photo you show above is not a manufacturing facility. It is their R&D lab.

As I stated before, where the lights are made is not a statement of quality and it does not matter.

 

[dz6t]

I said before more than once. AI is made in US.
Warehouses are places to store goods.

 

[thatguyZach]

So I just thought I'd share my thoughts and personal experiences in this. I currently run a pair of BB led on my 120gallon mixed reef. I started with the 165w mars aqua and used these for a year. I modded the control on these and I use them successfully with my Neptune Apex VDM ports. I then after a year upgraded the spectrum from the original led board to the SB Reef spectrum of LED which made. a HUGE difference in color, blend, and spectrum of light! The heat sink is thicker and better and I've had no issues with them and have grown sps like hotcakes. That said not all BB are created equal so take a good look at the data offered up front. The more disclosure on the light up front from the manufacturer, the better informed you'll be on what you are getting. Here's a pic to show

 

[dz6t]

Thanks for sharing.

Both a $800 Radion and $100 BB from a reputable manufacture can grow coral.

I think one of the take home message from BRS review and plenty evidence shown over the years is that:

The ability to grow coral is not a primary reason for the choice.

If you like the sunrise sunset, controllability, elegant design and the quality and craftsman ship, as well as a really nice looking fixture in your living room, and your wallet can afford it, I will go with a Radion.

A $100 BB, only has two manual dimming knobs, two wires that require one or two timers, generic looking sheet metals with screws that may rust within a year, no software control what so ever, (again, we are talking about the $100 ones), but all you need is to grow coral, a BB will do just fine.
By the way, as many evidence, led fixtures don't last forever, you are going to replace them in about three to 4 years or sooner anyway.

 

[Ryanbrs]

The way understand it is that Ecotech's parts are manufactured in China and shipped to the US where Ecotech assembles them.
Mike Paletta posted a couple of pics on a Reef Builders article he wrote on Ecotech and he has toured their facility,
.

I agree with others, you can get quality products made almost anywhere. Almost all of the electronics I personally view as the best of their field are not made in the US. However, quality control with fairly low volume items is sometimes easier when it isn't being built on their side of the planet.

To the question of where are Radions being made or assembled? I think it depends on how you define 'assembly'. If assembly means snapping cord clips together and a screwdriver it is pretty far beyond that. I had a chance to tour the facility last year when I visited with the goal of pitching why a diffused panel lighting is the future : ) I may not get this 100% right but it would appear they are "assembling" their own PCB boards but absolutely using some pretty advanced production machinery to rapidly attach the LEDs and other components to the boards. This is absolutely a production environment and not a R&D room. Without getting lost in the exact definitions I am certain a vast majority of people who viewed the process of building a module would view it as manufacturing.

Just for reference, the equipment looked pretty similar to something like this.

 

[dz6t]

Ryan
Thanks for sharing.
I am with you for the diffused panel for led light as the future, may be we can work something out to collaborate with a led manufacturer to test and produce a unique led fixture for this hobby.
I have a coral lab with thousands of coral that I have been researching with, especially lighting, for years.
Please pm me if you are interested.

 

[dz6t]

Back in three years ago, I had a prototype made which is a diffused led panel with 250 chips on a 12x12 inch panel, no moving part. I gave the manufacturer a radium halide and said mimic that with what ever thing you can do.

 

[dz6t]

The project did not go beyond the R&D phase because I don't have an outlet to sell 2000 to 3000 units per month to make it worthwhile for mass production.

 

[dz6t]

By the way it does has a diffuser like the Philips coral care led has. But it does cut down large amount of PAR.

 

[Greaps]

To me this talk of a diffuse panel of leds reminds me of another diffuse light source we all ready have called T5's. What is the main incentive to have a diffuse light from an led over a T5? Bulb replacement? More control? It seems like unless the led panel is optimized for a certain peak spectrum, one would need to reduce intensity of certain diodes reducing par ect to get the look one wants(and at a risk of reducing useful spectrum to corals). In a T5 just swaps a bulb or two and you have the look you want now and still peak par and power and proven spectrum.

 

[Wh00pS32]

The photo you show above is not a manufacturing facility. You really think these led are hand made?
As I stated before, where the lights are made is not a statement of quality and it does not matter.

Oh! so you've been there?.
I personally don't care where they are made, the point is that people who hav

I agree with others, you can get quality products made almost anywhere. Almost all of the electronics I personally view as the best of their field are not made in the US. However, quality control with fairly low volume items is sometimes easier when it isn't being built on their side of the planet.

To the question of where are Radions being made or assembled? I think it depends on how you define 'assembly'. If assembly means snapping cord clips together and a screwdriver it is pretty far beyond that. I had a chance to tour the facility last year when I visited with the goal of pitching why a diffused panel lighting is the future : ) I may not get this 100% right but it would appear they are "assembling" their own PCB boards but absolutely using some pretty advanced production machinery to rapidly attach the LEDs and other components to the boards. This is absolutely a production environment and not a R&D room. Without getting lost in the exact definitions I am certain a vast majority of people who viewed the process of building a module would view it as manufacturing.

Just for reference, the equipment looked pretty similar to something like this.

Thanks for that Ryan, thats what i was trying to get across and dz6t still said they were completely made in China, not that it matters even if they were. The Chinese can make anything to any quality that is desired. The biggest problem is that the western world doesn't want to pay for it and thats where the cheap chinese myth comes from.
I don't even use Ecotech lights myself, i use and like Ai but if i were to move to the higher end it would be the Orphek Atlantik V4 just for the spread of the panel.

 

[Ryanbrs]

To me this talk of a diffuse panel of leds reminds me of another diffuse light source we all ready have called T5's. What is the main incentive to have a diffuse light from an led over a T5? Bulb replacement? More control? It seems like unless the led panel is optimized for a certain peak spectrum, one would need to reduce intensity of certain diodes reducing par ect to get the look one wants(and at a risk of reducing useful spectrum to corals). In a T5 just swaps a bulb or two and you have the look you want now and still peak par and power and proven spectrum.

I agree 100%. It really seems like the goal is simply to use LEDs at all costs and it doesn't matter if we do it poorer than existing and much less expensive technology. While there have been major feature gains we have taken significant setbacks in the quality and distribution of light. In many cases, we are paying 2-3x the cost for worse performance. In other cases the distribution of light has become so poor it's hard to imagine why they are legitimate options. This path just seems rather silly.

The evolution had to include a phase where the goal was simply to find some level of success but I think we are beyond that now and the goal has to be to exceed the existing technology on all fronts. Meaning healthier corals, more attractive tanks, and valuable feature sets. Without the ridiculous costs associated with modules spaced 6" apart and tuned down to 20%.

Opinions may vary but my thoughts are the halide/T5 hybrid is the goal to beat. Spectrum was not an issue, light intensity was not an issue, light distribution and shadows were not issues and visually the tank looked awesome with solid color pop and sense of movement from the halides which was somewhat muted by the T5's. IMO awesome on all fronts except it is power hungry, added a ton of heat to the tank, required bulb changes, often physically large, often ugly or require hoods and most installs lacked many cool features.

I think when you look at a diffused panel of LED's you can see an opportunity here to blend the ideal spectrum, adjust to your tanks par needs, it's diffused properly with limited shadows, there is a muted shimmer, no issues with color representation or pop, lower energy, lower heat, low profile, no bulb changes and potentially has all the cool programming features and phone apps LEDs are known for. This is where LEDS are not just meeting older technologies it is exceeding them.

I have talked to a half dozen LED manufactures and they do understand and see the same thing. The main issue is the market is accustomed the module form factor and there is legitimate fear reefers won't adopt or buy a larger form factor. I think they have good reason to believe that because LED fixtures and larger panels like the Orphek have done poorly in the US. So a single manufacturer has to be first to take the financial risk and the rest will follow. Then the BB versions

Until then I think we already have something really close to the solution with T5 LED hybrids. Options are super thin for the same reasons. The manufacturers don't want to invest in a technology everyone assumes will be irrelevant fairly soon. The new aquaticlife hybrid approach is probably going to be a major hit because a lot of us already own our LED modules and it will allow us to add the T5's in for a reasonable expense. I think the 4 foot version is going to be $350. https://reefbuilders.com/2017/08/21/aquaticlife-t5ho-hybrid-fixture-is-byo-led/

 

[dz6t]

Very well said Ryan.
I think the high price of premium fixture are largely due to the market for reef hobby is so small in LED business.

 

[rtparty]

@Ryanbrs you absolutely nailed it!

For years I've always felt LEDs were being used because they had a "cool" factor to them. They were new and shiny. People love new and shiny. Doesn't matter if it's actually better, it just has to be new and it's perceived as better.

I truly hope LED can one day take over as the undoubted best choice for all of us. That's another topic though.

Speaking of other topics, can you share any news about the Euroquatics E5X bulbs? Maybe another thread even?

 

[glagunda]

We're at it again!

There were so many requests to test the Black Box LED that Ryan finally had to bring one in and test it. We can't wait to see where this thread goes, so by all means share your thoughts and opinions and experiences with these lights!

[emoji106][emoji106] Thumbs up to BRS to listening to consumers. My go to place for anything reef related.

 

[bif24701]

@Ryanbrs you absolutely nailed it!

For years I've always felt LEDs were being used because they had a "cool" factor to them. They were new and shiny. People love new and shiny. Doesn't matter if it's actually better, it just has to be new and it's perceived as better.

I truly hope LED can one day take over as the undoubted best choice for all of us. That's another topic though.

Speaking of other topics, can you share any news about the Euroquatics E5X bulbs? Maybe another thread even?

LED has taken over, by a wide margin it is the most selling lighting system.

Unfortunately there are some fixtures that poorly represent LEDs.

 

[rtparty]

LED has taken over, by a wide margin it is the most selling lighting system.

Unfortunately there are some fixtures that poorly represent LEDs.

Of course they've taken over. They're new and promised reefers a whole slew of things. Whether they delivered on those promises is an entirely different topic and very personal.

I tried a slew of them for years and never saw the results I expected. That was just my experience. I still don't think LEDs have caught MH/T5 for being the gold standard