We finally tested the Black Box LED... Compare notes? | BRStv Investigates

[enveetie]

Me wanting to see numbers from SBreef light is just to but a end to the argument.

what argument? i guess i dont follow whatever point is in contention.

 

[DancingShark]

?

You don't see the bickering back and forth.

 

[rtparty]

Judging people by the lights they use?

Since that post is tied to my quote I'll expound on what I meant by my original comment...

For me, I've seen a few sides in here. Those that want to bash "expensive" lights for the sake of bashing (not too many and nothing new here), those that will defend their lighting choice no matter what the numbers say (not new either), those that can't look at facts since it doesn't fit their agenda and those that are willing to have a reasonable discussion and see all sides.

That tends to show me who I can trust on forums.

 

[DancingShark]

what argument? i guess i dont follow whatever point is in contention.

People trying to defend their 100 or 160 dollar lights. Just live life. Enjoy your tanks.
Have fun. Corals love them. 100 or 800 bucks. I am out. See you guys later.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Those that want to bash "expensive" lights for the sake of bashing

I've yet to see anyone bashing any type of light without a valid point. In my perspective bashing an expensive light for the sake of bashing for example would look something like, "Radions totally not worth the money because of the black plastic they use."(smh head as I write this).

those that will defend their lighting choice no matter what the numbers say

The numbers represented in the video were fine but do not represent black boxes as a whole.

those that can't look at facts since it doesn't fit their agenda

That fits both sides of the spectrum. Those that take this black box in the video as a representation for all black boxes. Those that don't understand lens swaps. Then the other side more or less approves the par, spread and spectrum of the XR30 but cannot justify it in there wallets to purchase one.

That tends to show me who I can trust on forums.

It's not that serious. Is it?

 

[dz6t]

I want to clear up some misunderstandings. I have Radion , AI, Maxspect, blackboxes.
Along with MH and t5.
I study these things lol.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Back room banter with most manufacturers is mount as close as possible and adjust output.

27 years of setting lights over things says no.
So does most of the tech notes on manufacturers specs.

A small light makes a cone that spreads out like an upside down V. If the widest part of the V is on the bottom everything else is black or under less light. If the widest part of the V is at the top or near it evrythingbis evenly covered. I.E. no dead spots.

That's why a T5 has such good coverage. It has no V unless it is smaller that the tank.

You can have them PM me from the back room.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I want to clear up some misunderstandings. I have Radion , AI, Maxspect, blackboxes.
Along with MH and t5.
I study these things lol.

We should hang out. Only one I don't have is the Radion. Yet..

 

[Velcro]

We should hang out. Only one I don't have is the Radion. Yet..

Don't waste your time. I like a 14k look and radions look like trash at those settings.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Don't waste your time. I like a 14k look and radions look like trash at those settings.

Lol. I def didn't say I was going to put it on my tank!!!

Hahaha.

I've actually never seen one in person set to a nice daily viewing color. It's always the just blue thing.

 

[Velcro]

Lol. I def didn't say I was going to put it on my tank!!!

Hahaha.

I've actually never seen one in person set to a nice daily viewing color. It's always the just blue thing.

I don't get it. Most of my SPS looks best at like 12-14k. Even the orange passion is a stunner under a white setting.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I don't get it. Most of my SPS looks best at like 12-14k. Even the orange passion is a stunner under a white setting.

Me either. Big sweet display and a non button pusher infigure. But there's no accounting for taste.

 

[dz6t]

I like the concepts behind the panel design because it is most similar to the distribution of the historically best-performing light sources like T5's and large reflector Halides. It's just my opinion but I think once the community sees the data and supporting results behind large pannel diffused LED's we will transition from a world where LEDs are trying to be "as good" as T5 and halides and finally surpass performance on all fronts : )

I agree that large panel format like the Lani led may be the best way to go. No matter what kind of diffuser or lens used on a cluster style led, it won't solve shading issue on SPS colonies. It is pure physics and more spread does not equal to less shading.

That is why Radion, including the G4, is not ideal for SPS colonies Without t5 supplement. Or you need a group of Radion to cover the top of the tank, which can get expansive fast.

 

[dz6t]

In this thread, you can see a photo posted by SB to show case their led. They basically covered the tank with multiple panels. This approach can produce results for tanks that dominated by SPS colonies.
It is affordable too due to their price.

 

[Amoo]

I think a lot of the infighting that seems to be going on in this thread about all of the lights is forgetting a few very simple things:

1. Dana Riddle's MACNA presentation about par break points

2. Hitting the proper spectrums for all the Zoos.

We know 150-300 PAR seems to be ideal for MOST corals. At least a very few many. Dana has proven that.

What we don't know is what the exact spectrum are that we need in combination with 150-300 PAR. We can take some really good guesses based on Chloro uptakes, but all 150-300 PAR is not created equal. We have some really really good ideas, but until we can fill a fixture with chips of 400, 410, 420, 430.....640, 650, 660...etc we're still going to be forced to use something to compensate for the gaps in spectrum coverage. We're learning more and more and I think the BRS videos have the most value in showing us spectrum and blending. Outside of those two, I think we all agree we can get to 150-300 Par with most any LED box over 150W.

 

[Amoo]

Worth mentioning we think we want our Spectrum to look something like this:

Ideally filling that gap a little bit between 400 and 450 would be nice and maybe a little less in the 500-600 range would be ideal, but that spectrum chart comes off of a black box LED, and personally one that I have used and trust (not used this specific one yet but if my AI's give up the ghost I will).

@randyBRS I know you guys put a ton of time already into these videos, is there any way you guys can start adding a spectral graph underneath the tank of each light with each individual controllable channel at 100% and the rest at 0? I think that would give us a TON of useful information.

 

[Flippers4pups]

I think a lot of the infighting that seems to be going on in this thread about all of the lights is forgetting a few very simple things:

1. Dana Riddle's MACNA presentation about par break points

2. Hitting the proper spectrums for all the Zoos.

We know 150-300 PAR seems to be ideal for MOST corals. At least a very few many. Dana has proven that.

What we don't know is what the exact spectrum are that we need in combination with 150-300 PAR. We can take some really good guesses based on Chloro uptakes, but all 150-300 PAR is not created equal. We have some really really good ideas, but until we can fill a fixture with chips of 400, 410, 420, 430.....640, 650, 660...etc we're still going to be forced to use something to compensate for the gaps in spectrum coverage. We're learning more and more and I think the BRS videos have the most value in showing us spectrum and blending. Outside of those two, I think we all agree we can get to 150-300 Par with most any LED box over 150W.

I was originally going to post exactly this^, @Amoo beat me to it, but I got worked up over the statements of fire and failure without some statistical reference that can be prused over. I hate anecdotal statements of quality! (And not because I own these lights)

Agreed, 150-300 par seems the sweet spot for most corals, especially non ULNS systems. I think most led manufacturers have had enough time to refine their research to come close to the idea spectrum range. Most have.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

with each individual controllable channel at 100% and the rest at 0? I think that would give us a TON of useful information.

+1. THAT info might save me from finally upgrading to more than my $12 spectrometer.

Prob not.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I was originally going to post exactly this^, @Amoo beat me to it, but I got worked up over the statements of fire and failure without some statistical reference that can be prused over. I hate anecdotal statements of quality! (And not because I own these lights)

Agreed, 150-300 par seems the sweet spot for most corals, especially non ULNS systems. I think most led manufacturers have had enough time to refine their research to come close to the idea spectrum range. Most have.

That's been the secret to my success lately. Good cheap spectrum and a cheap meter to set it. Then just watch the corals.

 

[Wh00pS32]

What assembled? They are made in China and that is it.

Do you have any proof of this because on the box they say assembled in the US.
Also how about when Aquanerd toured Ecotech's facility.

http://aquanerd.com/2014/02/my-trip-to-ecotech-marine.html

in the article he says "Probably the most interesting room in this entire facility is this next one we’ll talk about. This is where the magic happens. This is any computer guy’s heaven. This is where the circuit boards for all of the EcoTech products are made…right here, in the USA. These machines are incredible. From start to finish, they pass through an assembly line of high tech machinery which implants circuit boards with LED’s, circuitry, chips, memory, and modules almost so fast that you cannot keep up. The technology behind this is simply amazing. To watch these boards come to life is really something special."
That seems like assembly to me.