We finally tested the Black Box LED... Compare notes? | BRStv Investigates

[dz6t]

If i remember correctly the are made in China and assembled in the US.

What assembled? They are made in China and that is it.

 

[reeferfoxx]

i would assume the overlapping area of each diode results in the greatest amount of sum par values right in the middle of the light fixture.

I'm talking about the strange spike to the right on the chart.

 

[dz6t]

For that spike, ask the people who took the measurements instead of the led light.

 

[Potatohead]

What assembled? They are made in China and that is it.

This is what I'm talking about. You can't just take something about a higher end product that might happen to be the same as a lower end one and call it even. It would be like saying "oh a BB and EcoTech both use LED technology so they are the same' when they clearly are not.

I actually don't know if a Radion or a Kessil or an AI is made in China or not. I do know the iPhone I am writing this on certainly is, and that it's a quality product. All engineering, tooling, workmanship, production materials and testing, quality standards, etc are all done by the parent company in the USA, not some guy literally trying to make the product the absolute cheapest way he can.

For that spike, ask the people who took the measurements instead of the led light.

It's in the video. It was not a measurement error.

 

[reeferfoxx]

For that spike, ask the people who took the measurements instead of the led light.

I mean to me it seems like a 2 or 3 cheap 3w led diodes can out perform Cree? That wouldn't support quality chips over cheap ones, would it? At least for a par stand point.

We also need to keep in mind that most LED fixtures have a hot spot. This video shows the more focused beam for a black box compared to those that most people buy(ie 120). Going back to the old ATI sunpower BRS investigates video, the T5 also has a hot spot.

 

[dz6t]

I am certainly guilty of that. I don't check my toaster, fridge or cell phone for UL or anything like that but that's honestly more because I trust the long-standing record of Breville, Whirlpool and Philipps. Supportive of that Target and Best Buy. Partially based on the fairly positive reputation all these companies have but also very much because I know it is in their legal best interest to look out for my best interest. Both the manufactures and retailers are very liable for dangerous products sold in the US.

If I were to buy a direct import toaster oven or fridge on ebay because it is 1/4 the price I think I would care about UL : )

What happen if the situation like this:
1. An oversea company A sold millions of white toaster oven world wide but only 1000 black toaster oven. No report of their toaster catch on fire.
2. A domestic company B sold 500 black toaster ovens and no report of fire either.

By the way, Blackboxes out sell luxury led more than 2:1.

But, this may be a surprise to some people, there is really very little profit from selling blackbox led.
For each $100 black box, you make about $5 to $10 after free shipping.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I also want to point out that the light tested may not be a mars aqua light.


You can see where the green diodes are in a different place, as well as the warm whites.

 

[enveetie]

Is it mixed reef? Are all the rocks sitting at the same depth and height?

no sps dom. rocks are similar height, a few inches variance along the rear islands. 3 side viewable, if that helps. i'm trying to light essentially a 28x28" area well enough for sps anywhere in it. i had considered buying 4 sbreeflights to do this, but since i wanted t5s also, i stuck with two units and 4 36" tubes. and now that i type this, i find it all kind of half-a$$ed as 8 t5 tubes probably would have solved my issues, but i wouldnt have all those amazing glimmer effects.

i think ryan is right in that large panel lights will be the future. its essentially the idea anyway from buying 4 sbreeflights to cover this 36x36. maybe the future is a large flat oled panel that looks like today's tv's facing down into our tanks, covering the entire footprint of the tank.

check out these lights on the giant centerpiece tank in this video:

 

[dz6t]

I mean to me it seems like a 2 or 3 cheap 3w led diodes can out perform Cree? That wouldn't support quality chips over cheap ones, would it? At least for a par stand point.
.

You are correct, as long as their similar wavelength, two 3w Epi or BridgeLux led do put out no less light than a 3w Cree chip running at the same current. Most of the time two Epi chips out shine one Cree chip.
I worked with led factories so I am not speaking as a hobbyist in this regard.

 

[dz6t]

Sometime people think the higher price of luxury led is due to higher price chips used. This is not the case for both blackbox and luxury led.
The cost difference on led are based on profit, marketing cost, customer service, R&D, legal, profit, distributions , profit, and profit, and last is the cost of manufacturing.

 

[DancingShark]

You know. Sbreef lights posting some numbers up would put at least half of this argument to rest. I mean if they dare.

I know he said they measure pur because it's more important but we probably want to see par distribution on them. Just for the sake of argument.

 

[dz6t]

This is what I'm talking about. You can't just take something about a higher end product that might happen to be the same as a lower end one and call it even. It would be like saying "oh a BB and EcoTech both use LED technology so they are the same' when they clearly are not.

I actually don't know if a Radion or a Kessil or an AI is made in China or not. I do know the iPhone I am writing this on certainly is, and that it's a quality product.

All engineering, tooling, workmanship, production materials and testing, quality standards, etc are all done by the parent company in the USA, not some guy literally trying to make the product the absolute cheapest ....

Radion is not the same as a BB led, no question about that.

AI is made in US.
Radion is made in China,
kessil is made in Taiwan.
Maxspect is a totally Chinese company

Where they are made should not be an issue or you have no smart phone to use.

All engineering, tooling, workmanship, production materials and testing, quality standards, etc are all done by the parent company in the USA and with the manufactures over sea.
Not just in US, period.

If you ever have a chance to visit led manufactures that make the majority of black boxes, you can see they are all massive companies.

 

[happyhourhero]

You know. Sbreef lights posting some numbers up would put at least half of this argument to rest. I mean if they dare.

I know he said they measure pur because it's more important but we probably want to see par distribution on them. Just for the sake of argument.

 

[enveetie]

You know. Sbreef lights posting some numbers up would put at least half of this argument to rest. I mean if they dare.

I know he said they measure pur because it's more important but we probably want to see par distribution on them. Just for the sake of argument.

I'm telling you, I spent a couple hours total measuring PAR with my sbreeflights with the lenses on and off, and the distribution is basically identical to the par map in the brs video, and *slightly* more widely distributed with the lenses off. im pretty sure this is just a limitation of the design of these TYPES of lights, no any one BB light in particular.

I think they don't post their PAR numbers because they really have nothing to gain from it and stand to lose more. Their selling point is an improved spectrum over "generic" BB lights, not simply pushing more PAR. Back the horsepower metaphor, most of the general buying public thinks more horsepower means a faster car, but it is really horsepower-to-weight ratio that matters, something only serious hobbyists understand. So if you've got a car with lower horsepower but higher power to weight ratio, you wouldn't be talking about horsepower.

 

[enveetie]

These numbers were measured with T5 installed. I mailed him awhile back asking if the t5s were ON while testing but never got a reply. If you look closely, they sure look like they're on to me. These numbers are also retrofit boards, not the entire sbreeflight unit sold by sbreeflight. Couldn't tell you how much that matters, but variables are variables.

 

[DancingShark]

I have seen this. I actually set up my lights based on his work. I just don't understand the fighting.

 

[dz6t]

I guess many of you never visit an led manufacturer in China.
I can tell you even for a relatively small company, they have more advanced laboratories that the premium led manufactures can show you in US.
Yet they make millions of blackboxes, well, for horticulture.
Why all our led fixtures, regardless of price, all using led chips available on the market? A market that has very little focus or even notice this reef hobby?
Because we are the small niches market.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I just don't understand the fighting.

?

 

[DancingShark]

I'm telling you, I spent a couple hours total measuring PAR with my sbreeflights with the lenses on and off, and the distribution is basically identical to the par map in the brs video, and *slightly* more widely distributed with the lenses off. im pretty sure this is just a limitation of the design of these TYPES of lights, no any one BB light in particular.

I think they don't post their PAR numbers because they really have nothing to gain from it and stand to lose more. Their selling point is an improved spectrum over "generic" BB lights, not simply pushing more PAR. Back the horsepower metaphor, most of the general buying public thinks more horsepower means a faster car, but it is really horsepower-to-weight ratio that matters, something only serious hobbyists understand. So if you've got a car with lower horsepower but higher power to weight ratio, you wouldn't be talking about horsepower.

Me wanting to see numbers from SBreef light is just to but a end to the argument. I know they probably won't they have hinted to it based on the PUR thing.

And I understand power to weight thing. I drive a 89 rabbit with 300hp

 

[happyhourhero]

I have seen this. I actually set up my lights based on his work. I just don't understand the fighting.

People are adamant about finding perceived faults. Same as it ever was. If I spent $800 on lights, I just cannot accept that someone else is getting better results off of $139.