What’s up with SPS

[smartwater101]

Check out the stickied SPS - Eye Candy thread, in this forum. It starts ~2006 and it's kind of interesting watching all the photos turn from natural light to, nowadays, a 90s black-light poster.

People have gone mad posting unrealistic photos in the selling threads as well. It's a trend that drives me bonkers. Blues absolutely everywhere. In terms of vendors, WWC is perfect example of a company that goes absolutely insane with this. Take any photo of theirs, drop the saturation by 40-60% and you'll actually get a realistic depiction of what it will look like in your tank. Even under heavy blues. Misrepresentation is the norm nowadays.

This isn't just an issue with live corals. It leaks into other areas where companies (*cough* Neptune *cough) can create products with horrid build quality and reliability.

"Vote with your wallet" makes for a great bumper sticker, but it's not what works in reality. Collectively, we behave like doormats, and companies take advantage because we do so. The relatively small size of the hobby and the notorious "niceness" of the hobbyists themselves, is what allows so many companies to get away with anti-consumer behavior.

People, in the selling forums, who are willing to post pics under white light as well as blue, should be celebrated. Vendors (like Unique Corals or Live Aquaria DD) who don't over-Photoshop or give silly names with a 50% markup... should be encouraged! Its becoming more and more of a rarity.

Its just as much OUR FAULT as it is the sellers. And, frankly, I'm tired of people treating these companies less like a business and more like a friend. It's absolutely ridiculous.



/rant


EDIT: Oh and btw, to those of you who say stuff like "stop complaining, just don't buy it." You are contributing absolutely nothing. If anything, you're just enabling these crappy business practices. People need to be able to voice their concerns about this stuff. Don't agree? Then tell us why.

okay, now /rant

 

[Epic Aquaculture]

I don’t like the all blue look either but I can’t stand a brown/yellow looking tank (that’s what more white looks like to me). When y’all say more white are y’all talking about closer to 20k or closer to 10k?

If you don’t want to spend $300 on a designer frag (which you can grow, frag and resale or trade), then don’t spend $300 on a designer frag. It’s that simple.

He's right... don't want to spend $300.00 on a frag, then don't. Get yourself a green slimer and call it a day

 

[ReefHomieJon]

He's right... don't want to spend $300.00 on a frag, then don't. Get yourself a green slimer and call it a day

Or a pulsing Xenia lol

 

[TinyTinCans]

Check out the stickied SPS - Eye Candy thread, in this forum. It starts ~2006 and it's kind of interesting watching all the photos turn from natural light to, nowadays, a 90s black-light poster.

People have gone mad posting unrealistic photos in the selling threads as well. It's a trend that drives me bonkers. Blues absolutely everywhere. In terms of vendors, WWC is perfect example of a company that goes absolutely insane with this. Take any photo of theirs, drop the saturation by 40-60% and you'll actually get a realistic depiction of what it will look like in your tank. Even under heavy blues. Misrepresentation is the norm nowadays.

This isn't just an issue with live corals. It leaks into other areas where companies (*cough* Neptune *cough) can create products with horrid build quality and reliability.

"Vote with your wallet" makes for a great bumper sticker, but it's not what works in reality. Collectively, we behave like doormats, and companies take advantage because we do so. The relatively small size of the hobby and the notorious "niceness" of the hobbyists themselves, is what allows so many companies to get away with anti-consumer behavior.

People, in the selling forums, who are willing to post pics under white light as well as blue, should be celebrated. Vendors (like Unique Corals or Live Aquaria DD) who don't over-Photoshop or give silly names with a 50% markup... should be encouraged! Its becoming more and more of a rarity.

Its just as much OUR FAULT as it is the sellers. And, frankly, I'm tired of people treating these companies less like a business and more like a friend. It's absolutely ridiculous.



/rant


EDIT: Oh and btw, to those of you who say stuff like "stop complaining, just don't buy it." You are contributing absolutely nothing. If anything, you're just enabling these crappy business practices. People need to be able to voice their concerns about this stuff. Don't agree? Then tell us why.

okay, now /rant

Exactly!!! Nuff said.

 

[Jaysushi]

@paja3 What is your current modified AB+ schedule look like? I run the AB+ but it is unmodified. So blues and purples are at 100%, green, red, and cool white are at 24% and warm white I leave at 0%.

 

[BiGGiePauls33]

@paja3 What is your current modified AB+ schedule look like? I run the AB+ but it is unmodified. So blues and purples are at 100%, green, red, and cool white are at 24% and warm white I leave at 0%.

Cool white and green 60% warm white and hyper red 30%, all blues and purples 100% for 4 1/2 hours then just straight blues and purples at 100% for the remaining 5 1/2 hours. This is similar to what WWC runs on their radions.

 

[BiGGiePauls33]

@paja3 What is your current modified AB+ schedule look like? I run the AB+ but it is unmodified. So blues and purples are at 100%, green, red, and cool white are at 24% and warm white I leave at 0%.

PM me your email and I can send it to you, I also have TSA's schedule I can send as well.

 

[SeaDweller]

Cool white and green 60% warm white and hyper red 30%, all blues and purples 100% for 4 1/2 hours then just straight blues and purples at 100% for the remaining 5 1/2 hours. This is similar to what WWC runs on their radions.

See, but you have some decent time for some full spectrum. Some people don’t understand they need some full spectrum and not JUST straight blues only.

 

[EW_Fish]

So you have multiple sps frags that almost look the same since you run on the "white side" I prefer to show my sps colors under a little bit more of the blue side... There are still plenty of 30-50 dollar sps frags out there. I'll pay a higher price if I don't see the coral as often or if hardly anyone has it.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Check out the stickied SPS - Eye Candy thread, in this forum. It starts ~2006 and it's kind of interesting watching all the photos turn from natural light to, nowadays, a 90s black-light poster.

People have gone mad posting unrealistic photos in the selling threads as well. It's a trend that drives me bonkers. Blues absolutely everywhere. In terms of vendors, WWC is perfect example of a company that goes absolutely insane with this. Take any photo of theirs, drop the saturation by 40-60% and you'll actually get a realistic depiction of what it will look like in your tank. Even under heavy blues. Misrepresentation is the norm nowadays.

This isn't just an issue with live corals. It leaks into other areas where companies (*cough* Neptune *cough) can create products with horrid build quality and reliability.

"Vote with your wallet" makes for a great bumper sticker, but it's not what works in reality. Collectively, we behave like doormats, and companies take advantage because we do so. The relatively small size of the hobby and the notorious "niceness" of the hobbyists themselves, is what allows so many companies to get away with anti-consumer behavior.

People, in the selling forums, who are willing to post pics under white light as well as blue, should be celebrated. Vendors (like Unique Corals or Live Aquaria DD) who don't over-Photoshop or give silly names with a 50% markup... should be encouraged! Its becoming more and more of a rarity.

Its just as much OUR FAULT as it is the sellers. And, frankly, I'm tired of people treating these companies less like a business and more like a friend. It's absolutely ridiculous.



/rant


EDIT: Oh and btw, to those of you who say stuff like "stop complaining, just don't buy it." You are contributing absolutely nothing. If anything, you're just enabling these crappy business practices. People need to be able to voice their concerns about this stuff. Don't agree? Then tell us why.

okay, now /rant

This is well said and thanks for the post! I have been trying to explain this in threads for a while but couldn’t word it like you.

You know what I hear ALL the time now? People use the excuse, they run blue light only because white light makes corals brown. This statement blows my mind and it bothers me a lot. Who is spreading this thought that white light makes coral brown?
I remember when everyone was running all blue plus ati bulbs and everyone of their tanks looked like windex, ew! The ones I know that went to using white bulbs realized they were missing out on some very nice colors from running all blue bulbs. And blue t5 bulbs have way more varied spectrum than a blue led from what I understand.

 

[BiGGiePauls33]

Here's my tank with some whites, greens and reds on. This looks nice but I still prefer the pop under the blues, lol.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

You have to grow the corals under the white light for them to show you the nice colors they have. The colors won’t come out until they are acclimated and growing new growth everyday.

 

[Dugless]

I have an inkling that the folks who respond with ‘Just don’t buy it’ are trying to play a similar game as the vendors. These side hustlers are focused on flipping 1/2” frags just like the rest. I love sharing experiences and photos, but once things cross into hyping how much ‘fire’ or how limited something is I just cringe. Designer coral, really?!?

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Actually we’re trying to politely say stop complaining. It’s not going to change anything. Walk into a shoe store or sporting goods store and start complaining about the prices and see what that accomplishes. If you think the price of anything in life is too high you have the choice to go with a more economical option.

 

[SeaDweller]

As with ANY hobby, often times you gotta pay to play. And the best things usually cost the most; collectors pay pretty pennies for rare and highly sought after pieces.

Gone are the days of buying Mari cultured indo pieces that were mini colony size for cheap. Gone are the days of buying large wild colonies for cheap. Now it’s all about keeping what you have alive, simply.

I just got done talking to Cornel today, aka CG Cherry Bomb aka TGC Cherry Bomb (not Ray), and one of the topics we talked about was Malaysia. Acros look like they’re trickling in on the west coast from there, and he’s got some in the works but they’re super ridiculous expensive. He recently got a colony in Los Angeles that melted on his 2 hour drive back to San Diego. So high prices still get passed on to the end user, unfortunately for now.

Y’all know the forum member @tristanfish? Yeah, well he’s sitting on a gold mine. This hobby won’t be getting much cheaper, I’m afraid.

 

[Dugless]

Corals are a unique product. If you buy $150 shoes you’re not going home to brag about how amazing the shoelaces are to try and sell them for $150 on FB. Unfortunately this happens all the time with frags.

Just recently I locally sold a nice colony for $100. It wasn’t a few weeks later and the individual was trying to sell frags for a ridiculous price on FB. The hobby feels like a used car lot.

I’m not arguing against high demand, low supply pieces. But every frag nowadays touts a $200+ price tag. Many of these are not limited, and most benefit from trick lighting. With MHs this wasn’t an issue. LEDs have really exacerbated the ability to blacklight corals into colors most people never realized they had. Combine that with macro photography and a fancy name and it just degrades further.

I guess I’m not complaining about the price as much as the honesty behind the process.

 

[SeaDweller]

Corals are a unique product. If you buy $150 shoes you’re not going home to brag about how amazing the shoelaces are to try and sell them for $150 on FB. Unfortunately this happens all the time with frags.

Just recently I locally sold a nice colony for $100. It wasn’t a few weeks later and the individual was trying to sell frags for a ridiculous price on FB. The hobby feels like a used car lot.

I’m not arguing against high demand, low supply pieces. But every frag nowadays touts a $200+ price tag. Many of these are not limited, and most benefit from trick lighting. With MHs this wasn’t an issue. LEDs have really exacerbated the ability to blacklight corals into colors most people never realized they had. Combine that with macro photography and a fancy name and it just degrades further.

I guess I’m not complaining about the price as much as the honesty behind the process.

But that situation is different. in your shoe example, it's a disposable product, even if they're made with a welt that's resole-able- it's a used product. In this case, one actually has to spend stress, time, and money to grow and aqua culture a difficult animal for our visual enjoyment, I think we'd all agree.

Now as far as the chop shop example you talked about, you just happen to be a good guy and the person who bought it is trying to capitalize on what's going on. Versus someone who is importing them, taking the risk, taking the time to get them to stay live, color them up, and ultimately all the money involved with a potential loss. I don't want to ever have to pay high prices, but unfortunately, unless one has buddies and homies in the hobby, it's not going to get better unless Indonesia allows exportation again...one can wish, right?

 

[Dugless]

Your example would be great, in theory. I just can’t trust that these high priced frags are actually aqua-cultured. Unless QT and waiting a few months counts. And you can believe that the mother colony photo used to sell/market frags was taken the day it arrived at the shop before it morphs into its captive coloration. Plenty of that risk is passed onto the hobbyist when they buy a piece, because realistically they are the ones responsible with the actual aquaculture of the coral.

 

[SeaDweller]

Your example would be great, in theory. I just can’t trust that these high priced frags are actually aqua-cultured. Unless QT and waiting a few months counts. And you can believe that the mother colony photo used to sell/market frags was taken the day it arrived at the shop before it morphs into its captive coloration. Plenty of that risk is passed onto the hobbyist when they buy a piece, because realistically they are the ones responsible with the actual aquaculture of the coral.

Indeed, I can't count how many times importers sent me pics and when I finally got the colonies they look super paled out, but this was expected though. Anyway, I'm not siding with vendors or anything, just looking at it from both perspectives and understanding the risks involved with trying to bring stuff in, that's all.

Don't matter to me cuz my tank is too full to want anything anymore.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

I think that analogies about this topic really don’t help because then people just go back and fourth about what analogy is more like the given situation

I always hear about how it takes so much money to be a vendor and to get boxes of corals and acclimate, grow and sell them. But I don’t see it as being that bad. 5 fragments of a “new” coral at most of these high end vendors will buy 2 boxes of acropora colonies or about 24 colonies.
If it is done correctly and the person has all their time to devote to the business then there is good money to be made selling fragments and colonies for normal prices. I don’t get why blue light guys always jump to reasons why corals are so expensive, seems it’s just the same things said in these threads by the same blue light coral growers. I really think the high price makes it seem that much more special and people are attracted to expensive things even if they don’t know much about them.