What am i missing

[doc_145]

I lose every tang and angel fish to this disease and I can't figure it out. I've dosed cooper and maintained it at therapeutic levels with zero success. It has not affected my 2 clowns, 8 chromes, filefish inverts or gobies. Pics are the best I can do as he did not make it through the night. Am assuming it's ich but cuprimine didn't and hasn't done anything....is it brook? Any assistance is appreciated.

 

[Gumbies R Us]

#fishmedic

 

[Lavey29]

There's a difference between preventative levels of copper and medicinal treatment levels of copper for certain diseases. What level copper are you treating at? Low levels commonly used at LFS are more for prevention rather then treatment.

 

[doc_145]

There's a difference between therapeutic levels of copper and medicinal treatment levels of copper for certain diseases. What level copper are you treating at? Therapeutic levels commonly used at LFS are more for prevention rather then treatment.

Following the cuprimine bottle it's states .50...which is what it had it at?

 

[Lavey29]

Following the cuprimine bottle it's states .50...which is what it had it at?

That seems to be the right level. How are you testing it? Do you have rock in the QT tank?

 

[doc_145]

Single rock and pvc also a sand bed converted this over to a qt from a previous set up. Hannah tester every morning to ensure it stayed in the correct range.....is it for sure ich though is what I'm now debating.

 

[Lavey29]

Single rock and pvc also a sand bed converted this over to a qt from a previous set up. Hannah tester every morning to ensure it stayed in the correct range.....is it for sure ich though is what I'm now debating.

Rock can absorb copper and drop your level but as long as you verify it daily. Looks like severe ich or velvet both treated with copper. Brook would affect all fish to especially clowns and you said no other fish have symptoms.

So these are new fish that you add to your QT tank and they immediately come down with disease symptoms? If so your QT tank is compromised and the copper isn't helping although I thought cuprimine was more for freshwater but guess it works on both. If you suspect brook then formulin is the treatment but I would not put any more fish in that QT for 60 days if this one passes.

Hopefully the medic experts will respond. I've only dealt with brook very early on in my tank.

 

[doc_145]

Yes new fish in qt the tang was good for 2 weeks then boom....the coral beauty didn't last 2 days but never showed signs of anything g so I chalked him up to shipping stress as they were purchased online.

 

[Lavey29]

Yes new fish in qt the tang was good for 2 weeks then boom....the coral beauty didn't last 2 days but never showed signs of anything g so I chalked him up to shipping stress as they were purchased online.

If the symptoms come on very fast and fish die quick then that indicates more towards velvet or brook. Ich is more of a progressive disease that starts with a few spots that drop off only to be replaced by more spots over weeks getting progressively worse over time.

 

[doc_145]

Just weird I'm almost to the point of it has to be brook cause this copper should take care of velvet or ich...but also my clowns didn't have an issue in this tank before moving to DT...unless this dude came with it....whatever it is .... ugh who knows. Thanks for your replies though kind sir!

 

[Lavey29]

Just weird I'm almost to the point of it has to be brook cause this copper should take care of velvet or ich...but also my clowns didn't have an issue in this tank before moving to DT...unless this dude came with it....whatever it is .... ugh who knows. Thanks for your replies though kind sir!

Well let @Jay Hemdal give his expert opinion. How long have you had the clowns with no symptoms?

 

[MnFish1]

I don't think its brook - the tang in question has known collection problems and may be related to that (the nasa tang). If I were you I would set up a quarantine with no rock - only inert materials. I would use a chelated copper product - which is a little forgiving if you you have an issue with levels being wrong. If your clowns are healthy it's unlikely to be brook. Though not entirely impossible. I don't see ich on the fish - which angels have you lost - what the source you use for fish>.

 

[MnFish1]

Just weird I'm almost to the point of it has to be brook cause this copper should take care of velvet or ich...but also my clowns didn't have an issue in this tank before moving to DT...unless this dude came with it....whatever it is .... ugh who knows. Thanks for your replies though kind sir!

The issue is the trusting of your levels - and the type of copper - and how often you're checking your levels. With rock in the tank - I would be checking and making sure copper levels are therapeutic at least 1x/day - if not twice.

It could easily be velvet - it really depends on the levels - HOWEVER - the other fish you have should be affect as well if it were velvet. Have you done anything for flukes?

 

[Fish Fan]

Following the cuprimine bottle it's states .50...which is what it had it at?

That seems to be the right level. How are you testing it? Do you have rock in the QT tank?

The instructions for Cupramine definintely says 0.5 ppm, but with Copper Power the therapeutic range is ~2.25 ppm for most fish. If the OP's fish are getting infected in the QT tank with the Cupramine, is this not just a case of the copper level being too low? Would Copper Power at 2.25-2.50 ppm be the better way to go here?

 

[doc_145]

Well let @Jay Hemdal give his expert opinion. How long have you had the clowns with no symptoms?

Clowns rode out their 30 day qt in same tank.prior to the tang and coral beauty arriving. Moved the clowns to DT before I added these guys so they've been clear and have been clear in DT as well with no issues.

 

[doc_145]

The issue is the trusting of your levels - and the type of copper - and how often you're checking your levels. With rock in the tank - I would be checking and making sure copper levels are therapeutic at least 1x/day - if not twice.

It could easily be velvet - it really depends on the levels - HOWEVER - the other fish you have should be affect as well if it were velvet. Have you done anything for flukes?

I have not done anything for flukes but would flukes make the fiah look that way?y copper levels were spot on i tested them daily with a hannah tester.

 

[doc_145]

I don't think its brook - the tang in question has known collection problems and may be related to that (the nasa tang). If I were you I would set up a quarantine with no rock - only inert materials. I would use a chelated copper product - which is a little forgiving if you you have an issue with levels being wrong. If your clowns are healthy it's unlikely to be brook. Though not entirely impossible. I don't see ich on the fish - which angels have you lost - what the source you use for fish>.

Fiah came from saltwater fish dot com...this is a 75 dt converted to qt but I'm thinking at this point to tear it down and keep my 25 gallon qt inert as u mentioned.

 

[Lavey29]

Clowns rode out their 30 day qt in same tank.prior to the tang and coral beauty arriving. Moved the clowns to DT before I added these guys so they've been clear and have been clear in DT as well with no issues.

And how long now have the clowns been ok?

 

[Lavey29]

The instructions for Cupramine definintely says 0.5 ppm, but with Copper Power the therapeutic range is ~2.25 ppm for most fish. If the OP's fish are getting infected in the QT tank with the Cupramine, is this not just a case of the copper level being too low? Would Copper Power at 2.25-2.50 ppm be the better way to go here?

I think maybe there are different types of copper medications but the most common level as you mentioned is the 2.0 range. But the cupramine specifies .5 so maybe it's a higher level dose in a smaller application. This is something Jay is the expert in.

 

[Fish Fan]

I think maybe there are different types of copper medications but the most common level as you mentioned is the 2.0 range. But the cupramine specifies .5 so maybe it's a higher level dose in a smaller application. This is something Jay is the expert in.

I'm genuinely asking, so I would appreciate Jay's input here. Thanks for your reply!