what causes a fast drop in alk

[xmas]

I tested last night and noticed an alk drop from 10 to 6 in four days.
today:
calcium 460
mag 1470
ph 8
alk 6

four days ago:
calcium 440
mag 1410
ph 8
alk 10

I am testing every 3 to 4 days and dose accordingly for the test have not added nothing in 20 days. Wondering what would cause alk to drop so fast..

I am using 2 part bionic

coral vite every other day or so..
reef roads every 4 days or so..
heavy feeding in the 50 until the new 100 tank is ready since it has 2 tangs I rescued last month during a tank breakdown.

I am no scientist but trying to figure out the triangle. I shoot for 1500 and 500 8 and 10. and nitrate at .05 /.10

Thanks

 

[Hitman]

What and how many corals do you have?
That's only 1 dkh a day which is pretty normal in a SPS tank. My tank sucks up 1.2 dkh daily which is why I have a doser dosing 1 ml of ESV B-Ionic Alk and Ca every 30 minutes which is 48 ml of each daily as well as 2400 ml of Kalk daily now.

 

[AngryMike2016]

Yeah, if you have SPS, there's your answer. I have about 20 acros all still in frag stage, and my tank is eating up around 1.2 dkh per day.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

Honestly, if you let the alkalinity fall from 10 dKH to 6 dKH in 4 days, you're not likely to have any SPS (at least living SPS) very long....

 

[Hitman]

You need to test daily to get your Alk demand and dose that spread out daily then you can go maybe a day or two without testing Alk. I still test daily if all goes as planned but never do I go longer then 48 hours without a Alk test.

 

[KrisReef]

So in four days your
calcium went up 20 ppm to 460
mag went up 60 ppm to 1470
ph 8 didn't change
alk went down from 10 to 6

You may be dosing too much calcium?
Where is the magnesium increase coming from? Is that in your two part? (Sorry, not familiar with the bionic product)

Alk is consumed slightly faster than calcium, so as others mentioned you need to figure out the daily consumption in the tank and dose to replace that. Test daily at least to ensure you know what your tank is doing. If you get strange results, test again to eliminate possible testing errors. Our typical reef test kits are easy to provide spurious results.

Not sure why you are shooting for 500, 1500, 8 & 10? I used to try and boost all my numbers but it frequently caused complications with equipment and was highly unstable. After I started aiming lower for 400, 1360+, (i don't do pH) and 8, (~average published tropical water parameters) the water chemistry was inherently more stable and way easier to hit using the same equipment but just aiming at average. The added day to day stability really helps the corals to flourish.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

BTW, to add to Kris' thoughts, I've seen advice given to measure one's reef's consumption of alkalinity by measuring it over several days without dosing, then divide the consumption up over the time period of testing and dose accordingly. It seems to me that this is unnecessarily risky to your organisms, especially if you've a tank full of SPS corals. Instead, I usually recommend someone start dosing 1/2 mL per gallon of tank volume of alkalinity every day, test the alkalinity every day, evaluate whether it's going up or down after 3 days and adjust the dose accordingly.

 

[Hitman]

BTW, to add to Kris' thoughts, I've seen advice given to measure one's reef's consumption of alkalinity by measuring it over several days without dosing, then divide the consumption up over the time period of testing and dose accordingly. It seems to me that this is unnecessarily risky to your organisms, especially if you've a tank full of SPS corals. Instead, I usually recommend someone start dosing 1/2 mL per gallon of tank volume of alkalinity every day, test the alkalinity every day, evaluate whether it's going up or down after 3 days and adjust the dose accordingly.

I disagree with that as that would have me dosing 120 ml at 1/2ml per gallon vs the 48 ml I dose that covers 1.2dkh a day of consumption.

 

[beaslbob]

if the drop is real and not test equjiment errors, sounds like you need to start adding some baking soda.

See: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

 

[Dkeller_nc]

I disagree with that as that would have me dosing 120 ml at 1/2ml per gallon vs the 48 ml I dose that covers 1.2dkh a day of consumption.

Umm - except that something is way, way off with those numbers. If your system is 240 gallons, and you're using the standard sodium bicarb solution, you would need to dose 411 mL per day to keep up with a 1.2 dKH alkalinity demand.

 

[xmas]

What and how many corals do you have?
That's only 1 dkh a day which is pretty normal in a SPS tank. My tank sucks up 1.2 dkh daily which is why I have a doser dosing 1 ml of ESV B-Ionic Alk and Ca every 30 minutes which is 48 ml of each daily as well as 2400 ml of Kalk daily now.

I have acans chalices and limited SPS I have about four pieces just to see how good I can keep them.

I will be moving pieces soon as soon as I get the hundred gallon frag dialed in

I do not have a doser right now so I’m trying to does everything at night after work. And after I test.
be about two more weeks before I’ll have the Apex all hooked up and everything dialed in

 

[xmas]

So in four days your
calcium went up 20 ppm to 460
mag went up 60 ppm to 1470
ph 8 didn't change
alk went down from 10 to 6

You may be dosing too much calcium?
Where is the magnesium increase coming from? Is that in your two part? (Sorry, not familiar with the bionic product)

Alk is consumed slightly faster than calcium, so as others mentioned you need to figure out the daily consumption in the tank and dose to replace that. Test daily at least to ensure you know what your tank is doing. If you get strange results, test again to eliminate possible testing errors. Our typical reef test kits are easy to provide spurious results.

Not sure why you are shooting for 500, 1500, 8 & 10? I used to try and boost all my numbers but it frequently caused complications with equipment and was highly unstable. After I started aiming lower for 400, 1360+, (i don't do pH) and 8, (~average published tropical water parameters) the water chemistry was inherently more stable and way easier to hit using the same equipment but just aiming at average. The added day to day stability really helps the corals to flourish.

Until the new system is hooked up I’m trying to limit my testing down to every two or three days so I’m shooting for high numbers so nothing drops too fast.

 

[Hitman]

Umm - except that something is way, way off with those numbers. If your system is 240 gallons, and you're using the standard sodium bicarb solution, you would need to dose 411 mL per day to keep up with a 1.2 dKH alkalinity demand.

Nope 48 ml of ESV B-Ionic Alk and 48ml of ESV B-Ionic Ca covers 1.2 dkh. And per ESV's directions of 1 ml per 4 gallons I'm underdosing. With that said in a previous conversation with Randy on another forum years ago I am right on target. Again 1/2 ml per gallon is way to much.

 

[Hitman]

I have acans chalices and limited SPS I have about four pieces just to see how good I can keep them.

I will be moving pieces soon as soon as I get the hundred gallon frag dialed in

I do not have a doser right now so I’m trying to does everything at night after work. And after I test.
be about two more weeks before I’ll have the Apex all hooked up and everything dialed in

Kinda seems like a high demand with that short list but anything is possible if you have ruled out testing error. You will love B-Ionic as it is the only 2 part that adds many trace elements and has proven with ICP testing and visual evidence to me that it works in my tank and I'm a lazy reefer. Lol. As soon as you can get a good doser which will help you keep your levels stable. I personally split my dosing over 48 times a day being every 30 minutes. On the hour and half past I dose Ca and on the 15 and 45 mark I dose Alk. You could dose just hourly like many do and be successful with a doser I just choose to be different lol Any B-Ionic questions you have feel free to give me a shout and I'll help you out. Just remember any adjustments you make with it let it mix in you tank for at least 30 minutes to a hour before you retest.

 

[Dkeller_nc]

Nope 48 ml of ESV B-Ionic Alk and 48ml of ESV B-Ionic Ca covers 1.2 dkh. And per ESV's directions of 1 ml per 4 gallons I'm underdosing. With that said in a previous conversation with Randy on another forum years ago I am right on target. Again 1/2 ml per gallon is way to much.

Ah - that would be the distinction. The rule of thumb I quoted is for a sodium bicarbonate solution, and it's actually not possible to concentrate a solution of sodium bicarbonate anywhere close to enough to supply 1.2 dKH/day in 240 gallons with 48 mL. Kind of makes me wonder what the heck ESV is actually supplying, as it actually would be possible to do this with something like sodium hydroxide.

But since you mention it, I'll be careful to add the asterisk that what I'm referring to is DIY sodium bicarb/carbonate solutions, not a commercial product.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I tested last night and noticed an alk drop from 10 to 6 in four days.
today:
calcium 460
mag 1470
ph 8
alk 6

four days ago:
calcium 440
mag 1410
ph 8
alk 10

I am testing every 3 to 4 days and dose accordingly for the test have not added nothing in 20 days. Wondering what would cause alk to drop so fast..

I am using 2 part bionic

coral vite every other day or so..
reef roads every 4 days or so..
heavy feeding in the 50 until the new 100 tank is ready since it has 2 tangs I rescued last month during a tank breakdown.

I am no scientist but trying to figure out the triangle. I shoot for 1500 and 500 8 and 10. and nitrate at .05 /.10

Thanks

That’s a drop of 1 dKH per day which is pretty typical and does not need sps corals to happen. [emoji3]

 

[VIkas]

I am having the same prob. Cant keep ALK constant..Keeps Droping
Can you GURUs pls educate me...

My tank has
Fishes... 3 Tangs , 3 Gobies, 4 Antheas, 4 Nemos
Corals.. 4 Brains, 2 Hammers, 3 Acro, 2 BTA, 1 Duncan, 2 Torches, 1 Frog spawn, a colony of zoa, GSP, FINGER CORAL

Tank parameters ....180 Gall
Test dates..... 10-17 June

Started with Alk 9.8 ( after dosing baking soda to get Alk up to 9.8 )
AND now Kalkwasser every day (2 ltrs.. approx evaporation ) with ATO

Cal...........450~470
Mag.........1440
Nitrate....2
Phos.........0
Salinity......1.024
Ph..............8.2

ALK ..... 9.8—9.2—8.6—8.2—8.0—7.8—7.6—7.0
( from 10th to 17th )
And settles at 6.0 finally

have chkd Alk with RED SEA, Salifet, Columbia
Almost consistent readings


Pls help...Much thanks in advance

 

[blasterman]

Alk is consumed faster than calcium and by a far greater range of biology. Bacteria producing nitrate, etc. Ive had young tanks consume 1-2 dKH per day without a single stony coral in them.

The worst myth in this hobby is that alk and calcium are locked in step. They arent. Put it out of your mind and decouple calcium and alkalinity in a mixed reef. You will keep your sanity.

Use a box of baking soda and keep alk between 8-9.

 

[VIkas]

H

Alk is consumed faster than calcium and by a far greater range of biology. Bacteria producing nitrate, etc. Ive had young tanks consume 1-2 dKH per day without a single stony coral in them.

The worst myth in this hobby is that alk and calcium are locked in step. They arent. Put it out of your mind and decouple calcium and alkalinity in a mixed reef. You will keep your sanity.

Use a box of baking soda and keep alk between 8-9.

Hey.. Thanks for this useful advise..I’ll switch to Baking Soda..
How ever just a quick quest.. Will Kalkwasser not maintain the desired Alk.. ..

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

H

Hey.. Thanks for this useful advise..I’ll switch to Baking Soda..
How ever just a quick quest.. Will Kalkwasser not maintain the desired Alk.. ..

It can. It did in my tank,. But it is limited in capacity by solubility and evaporation, and so in a high calcification tank it may not.