What do you use to clean pumps?

[Cory]

I can get vinegar for 2$ at 4 liters

Vinegar is the safest form. Its also the safest to your reef. You dont even need to rinse it. It wont change alkalinity. Bacteria will eat it. This is the slowest to clean pumps.

Citric acid, is also pretty safe, but not as safe as vinegar imo. Iirc it will lower your alk without rinsing. Bacteria will eat it. Its probably faster than vinegar.

Muriatic acid is the most dangerous. If you get it in your eyes you can be blind. It also produces lots of gasses. Must be done outside. Fracking uses this to dissolve rock in the earth. You need to rinse or it will lower your alkalinity. Bacteria cant eat it. This is the quickest, 15 minutes and its done.

 

[Flameback Pair]

I can get vinegar for 2$ at 4 liters

Vinegar is the safest form. Its also the safest to your reef. You dont even need to rinse it. It wont change alkalinity. Bacteria will eat it. This is the slowest to clean pumps.

Citric acid, is also pretty safe, but not as safe as vinegar imo. Iirc it will lower your alk without rinsing. Bacteria will eat it. Its probably faster than vinegar.

Muriatic acid is the most dangerous. If you get it in your eyes you can be blind. It also produces lots of gasses. Must be done outside. Fracking uses this to dissolve rock in the earth. You need to rinse or it will lower your alkalinity. Bacteria cant eat it. This is the quickest, 15 minutes and its done.

^I totally agree with all of this.

Possibly, but I'd just use straight vinegar. :)

So will just straight vinegar no form mold? I suppose "just straight vinegar" is still fairly inexpensive.

 

[mfinn]

^I totally agree with all of this.

So will just straight vinegar no form mold? I suppose "just straight vinegar" is still fairly inexpensive.

If you are having mold issues, you are leaving the pump in it way too long.

 

[Flameback Pair]

If you are having mold issues, you are leaving the pump in it way too long.

If you reread the thread you would see my narrative to finding something to put in vinegar to keep it from molding. I put the question to Randy H-F a few times and all he said was, "he'd use straight vinegar." The reason I need an anti-microbial for a vinegar-water solution is that it forms mold on the surface after awhile. I let a bucket sit that I'm constantly throwing utensils, equipment, tools, etc, into for a long time because I'm busy and it's still acceptable in this hobby to wait until I can clean a whole batch of things at a time. I let the hardware sit in a bucket with a vinegar-water solution to keep the slime on them from drying, which when it does dry, makes it MUCH harder to remove. Maybe I'll switch to just plain water, it's cheaper and doesn't mold but isn't as good at dissolving crud and slime.

I have a backup piece of equipment for just about every piece of equipment that I run and it also allows me to let hardware sit in a bucket while I use the backup equipment in place of the main one. This is not expensive, I live on a limited budget and have backup equipment even for things like controllers. I'm able to do this because I'm not doing the next, and the next, and the next build.

 

[mfinn]

If you reread the thread you would see my narrative to finding something to put in vinegar to keep it from molding. I put the question to Randy H-F a few times and all he said was, "he'd use straight vinegar." The reason I need an anti-microbial for a vinegar-water solution is that it forms mold on the surface after awhile. I let a bucket sit that I'm constantly throwing utensils, equipment, tools, etc, into for a long time because I'm busy and it's still acceptable in this hobby to wait until I can clean a whole batch of things at a time. I let the hardware sit in a bucket with a vinegar-water solution to keep the slime on them from drying, which when it does dry, makes it MUCH harder to remove. Maybe I'll switch to just plain water, it's cheaper and doesn't mold but isn't as good at dissolving crud and slime.

I have a backup piece of equipment for just about every piece of equipment that I run and it also allows me to let hardware sit in a bucket while I use the backup equipment in place of the main one. This is not expensive, I live on a limited budget and have backup equipment even for things like controllers. I'm able to do this because I'm not doing the next, and the next, and the next build.

Vinegar is cheap. Use it, then toss it.
I am also on a budget. I am retired and my income is fixed, but vinegar is cheap.

 

[roberthu526]

Run in vinegar for about 2 hours and brush parts

 

[jd371]

I use 50/50 vinegar and hot water. I take the PH's and return pump apart and let soak in the hot water mix. After 15 minutes I give them a good scrubbing with a stiff brush and quick rinse before being assembled again.

 

[slief]

Just a tad bit of advice for those who are interested. I know many have been doing this for years and as such, think it's just fine but it's not. Do NOT soak your pumps overnight in vinegar.. You are likely damaging them by dosing so. Vinegar is used in the boat industry and most particularly the hull manufacturing and repair side of things to clean up epoxy resins. Prolonged exposure (overnight) to vinegar will soften and compromise the epoxy potting within a pump. Most pumps have the electrical cords sealed into the pump with epoxy during the potting process and those prolonged soaks will compromise the seal between the cord and the internals. Many high end submersible pumps actually have a resin coating on the outside and not just plastic. A 10 minute soak in 5% vinegar should remove most calcium or soften it enough for it to be brushed off. If it doesn't, warm the vinegar up and it will or you can scrub, rinse and then repeat. Again, prolonged exposure to vinegar is bad for the pumps. Also, avoid soaking the o-rings in vinegar too as vinegar can damage o-rings as well.

Muratic acid is even worse. That's how you remove epoxy coatings from garage floors. Infact a 10:1 ratio of water to muratic acid will strip the epoxy right off the garage floor in 15 minutes. Do you still think it's a good idea to soak your pump in that stuff?? What about the impellers where many of the magnets are resin coated and or bonded to the impeller shafts? Trust me when I tell you, it's a bad idea. There are better ways to clean your pumps that don't risk compromising their integrity. Like I said, a 10 minute soak in vinegar followed by a good scrub with a soft brush is all it should take to remove the calcium from a pump. If it doesn't, rinse and repeat again. If that doesn't work, you aren't cleaning your pumps frquently enough.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Muratic acid is even worse. That's how you remove epoxy coatings from garage floors. Infact a 10:1 ratio of water to muratic acid will strip the epoxy right off the garage floor in 15 minutes. Do you still think it's a good idea to soak your pump in that stuff?? .

Yes. Did it for 20 years without apparent issue. :)

The muriatic acid isn't breaking down the epoxy in that time frame, it is etching the concrete. :)

 

[slief]

Yes. Did it for 20 years without apparent issue. :)

The muriatic acid isn't breaking down the epoxy in that time frame, it is etching the concrete. :)

I am aware of muriatic acids use for etching concrete. I used it to etch my garage floor before putting vinyl tile down in there.. While it may take more than a 15 minute soak at that ratio muriatic Acid will soften cured epoxy even in very diluted form.

People uses the chemicals to clean their pumps and equipment all the time but there is good reason why Tunze, Royal Exclusiv and most other pump manufacturers advise to avoid using muratic acid to clean pumps and even recommend avoiding prolonged exposure to vinegar as that too can damage the pumps.

I've personally used vinegar to remove epoxy before and it works amazingly well. I've also seen damage caused to pumps from prolonged vinegar soaks.
This is info from an epoxy coating company. Note the section on vinegar. I would expect Muriatic acid will have the same effect since it's even more acidic.
https://watsoncoatings.com/quick-fix-how-to-remove-epoxy/

 

[shiftline]

I always mix atleast 50\50 ratio with vinegar. I have used it for years in the hobby for cleaning aquarium equipment. Generally let it soak for 10m-2h So fat issue free!

But good point on not leaving it in for days. For me vinegar is something you cook with. Eat, out on fries. Salads and seems much less harsh then citric acid

 

[cracker]

interesting,

 

[slief]

Yes. Did it for 20 years without apparent issue. :)

The muriatic acid isn't breaking down the epoxy in that time frame, it is etching the concrete. :)

I did find some info on the use of diluted muriatic acid to remove epoxy coatings from floors which is the link below. There is a lot of info on using sulfuric acid to remove cured epoxy but given I don't know enough about the differences, I won't compare the two.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/epoxy-coating-removal-99130.html

I will also note that muriatic acid will also attack some plastics and make them brittle. Many of our pumps have plastic housings and the impellers are typically plastic as well.
http://www.brighthubengineering.com/manufacturing-technology/102523-muriatic-acid-cleaning/


At the end of the day, my biggest point is that there are better ways to clean a pump than prolonged soaks in vinegar or using muriatic acid as either scenario can damage the pumps. As I said above, a 10 minute soak in household vinegar (5% acidity) will usually soften stubborn calcium deposits to the point that it will scrub right off. It's what I have used and recommended as a best practice for many many years. There isn't a good justifiable reason to resort to prolonged soaks in vinegar or the use of muriatic acid as there are risks of damage when using either approach.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am aware of muriatic acids use for etching concrete. I used it to etch my garage floor before putting vinyl tile down in there.. While it may take more than a 15 minute soak at that ratio muriatic Acid will soften cured epoxy even in very diluted form.

People uses the chemicals to clean their pumps and equipment all the time but there is good reason why Tunze, Royal Exclusiv and most other pump manufacturers advise to avoid using muratic acid to clean pumps and even recommend avoiding prolonged exposure to vinegar as that too can damage the pumps.

I've personally used vinegar to remove epoxy before and it works amazingly well. I've also seen damage caused to pumps from prolonged vinegar soaks.
This is info from an epoxy coating company. Note the section on vinegar. I would expect Muriatic acid will have the same effect since it's even more acidic.
https://watsoncoatings.com/quick-fix-how-to-remove-epoxy/

I don't agree. It's not the acid character of vinegar that would make it soften a material such as a cured epoxy. I think the effect is minimal for a cured epoxy (they are generally stable to aqueous acids), but what softening happens is due to the organic character of acetic acid which allows it to penetrate organic materials such as an epoxy, something that diluted muriatic acid won't do.

In any case, there's no need to debate chemistry since this test is done frequently by loads of reefers without apparent issue. [emoji3]

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I did find some info on the use of diluted muriatic acid to remove epoxy coatings from floors which is the link below. There is a lot of info on using sulfuric acid to remove cured epoxy but given I don't know enough about the differences, I won't compare the two.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/epoxy-coating-removal-99130.html

I will also note that muriatic acid will also attack some plastics and make them brittle. Many of our pumps have plastic housings and the impellers are typically plastic as well.
http://www.brighthubengineering.com/manufacturing-technology/102523-muriatic-acid-cleaning/


At the end of the day, my biggest point is that there are better ways to clean a pump than prolonged soaks in vinegar or using muriatic acid as either scenario can damage the pumps. As I said above, a 10 minute soak in household vinegar (5% acidity) will usually soften stubborn calcium deposits to the point that it will scrub right off. It's what I have used and recommended as a best practice for many many years. There isn't a good justifiable reason to resort to prolonged soaks in vinegar or the use of muriatic acid as there are risks of damage when using either approach.

Then we will just have to disagree as I think you are wrong. Diluted muriatic acid, while having potential safety concerns for people , will not hurt most plastics, and is far faster than vinegar.

 

[shiftline]

I don't agree. It's not the acid character of vinegar that would make it soften a material such as a cured epoxy. I think the effect is minimal for a cured epoxy (they are generally stable to aqueous acids), but what softening happens is due to the organic character of acetic acid which allows it to penetrate organic materials such as an epoxy, something that diluted muriatic acid won't do.

In any case, there's no need to debate chemistry since this test is done frequently by loads of reefers without apparent issue. [emoji3]

Tried and true!

 

[slief]

I don't agree. It's not the acid character of vinegar that would make it soften a material such as a cured epoxy. I think the effect is minimal for a cured epoxy (they are generally stable to aqueous acids), but what softening happens is due to the organic character of acetic acid which allows it to penetrate organic materials such as an epoxy, something that diluted muriatic acid won't do.

Duly noted regarding vinegar vs acid. I certainly don't pretend to be a chemist and for the record, I have the utmost respect for you and your experience. My point was centered on best practices and potential risks as both a hobbyist as well as somebody who handles support for a well regarded pump manufacturer.

Prolonged exposure to vinegar can damage pumps by softening the epoxy used in the potting process of most internal pumps. That was one of my main points for chiming in here. Science or chemistry aside, using muriatic acid is not recommended by any pump manufacturer that I am aware of. While it may be tried and true for some, I personally don't recommend it nor do pump manufacturers. In fact, I know at least a few pump manufacturers that strongly recommend against using it on pumps. I know Tunze doesn't recommend it. I know Royal Exclusiv, Askoll, Fluval don't recommend it either. I'd also bet that virtually any other internal pump manufacturer would warn against using muriatic acid or even prolonged exposure to household vinegar. Granted, we have speed limits too and many if not most don't always follow them and most live to tell about it.

The only time I have ever needed more than a 10 minute soak in 5% vinegar was to clean my Tunze's after 3 years of neglect. Granted, I am sure muriatic acid would have made quick work of the 1" thick coraline on them but I erred on the side of caution and used repeated warm vinegar soaks.

 

[JVU]

Duly noted regarding vinegar vs acid. I certainly don't pretend to be a chemist and for the record, I have the utmost respect for you and your experience. My point was centered on best practices and potential risks as both a hobbyist as well as somebody who handles support for a well regarded pump manufacturer.

Prolonged exposure to vinegar can damage pumps by softening the epoxy used in the potting process of most internal pumps. That was one of my main points for chiming in here. Science or chemistry aside, using muriatic acid is not recommended by any pump manufacturer that I am aware of. While it may be tried and true for some, I personally don't recommend it nor do pump manufacturers. In fact, I know at least a few pump manufacturers that strongly recommend against using it on pumps. I know Tunze doesn't recommend it. I know Royal Exclusiv, Askoll, Fluval don't recommend it either. I'd also bet that virtually any other internal pump manufacturer would warn against using muriatic acid or even prolonged exposure to household vinegar. Granted, we have speed limits too and many if not most don't always follow them and most live to tell about it.

The only time I have ever needed more than a 10 minute soak in 5% vinegar was to clean my Tunze's after 3 years of neglect. Granted, I am sure muriatic acid would have made quick work of the 1" thick coraline on them but I erred on the side of caution and used repeated warm vinegar soaks.

Holy cow! The real news here is that you grow coralline algae 1 inch thick on equipment! Never have I witnessed it, I'd be interested in seeing what that looks like.