What is a "Mature Reef Tank"?

[ReefLife_Guy]

I could not find a similar post, so I wanted to start a thread to see what others think….

What exactly is a "Mature Reef Tank"? Or what does it mean to have a mature tank?

While this phrase is probably used in every area of the hobby, I found it used particularly often when a new hobbyist is talking about adding an anemone to their tank for the first time. From the numerous threads I have read, it seems almost reflexively for at least one of the responses to be “It is only recommended to add an anemone to….” a “…mature reef tank” or “…an established reef tank” or “….a tank that is at least 6 months to 1 year old”.

My question is…What does that even mean? Maybe the meaning is different depending on the application? If someone wants to add a dragonet to their tank, maybe an “established tank” is one with a healthy copepod population. For anemones it seems stable water parameters, flow, and lighting are key for success, if you have all of these is your tank “mature”? I think using these terms without defining them is a disservice to the hobby and produce a lot of frustration among beginners in the hobby. This is especially true when they wait the “magic” 6 months, add an anemone, and it dies within a week, crashing their whole tank.

 

[ReefLife_Guy]

Disclaimer: I started this hobby only 3 months ago, but I do not do anything without extensive research. Albeit most of the evidence out there is anecdotal, I think I am pretty good at navigating what is probably just luck/chance versus others that probably have reasonable scientific explanations for.


I hypothesized that my reef tank could successfully maintain an anemone if the following 3 things were maintained for at least 2 weeks:

1. tank was cycled (meaning able to handle its current bioload with no accumulation of ammonia) and able to keep corals, fish, and invertebrates (outside of anemones) alive
2. Stable water parameters (10% or less of fluctuation): mainly for salinity, temperature, pH, calcium, and alkalinity.
3. adequate lighting (par 250-300)

After this, I added my first anemone and within a couple of days it is still alive and appears to be thriving (i.e., eating food like mysis, expected coloration and morphology, exhibiting expected behaviors). So….I’m 3 months in and have 2 bubble tip anemones, am I just lucky? Is my tank mature? Are these just very hardy anemones and would survive in the worst of conditions? Should I expect disaster in the near future because I did not wait 6 months? Or maybe my hypothesis is how you would define a suitable environment ready to host an anemone?

Curious to see what others with much more experience think!

 

[ReefLife_Guy]

Bad picture of my interstellar bubble tip which is only like an inch wide but here is one of my green bubble tip with my twerking/dancing sexy shrimp photobombing!

 

[ReefLife_Guy]

Pretend you don’t see the GHA but these look like happy anemones right?

 

[Blumy]

For me, when you can drop in an acro from any source and watch it flourish.

 

[snickers104]

Lots of answers

 

[ReefLife_Guy]

For me, when you can drop in an acro from any source and watch it flourish.

This may be true, but what is the reason for the flourishing acro? It would be nice for there to be some kind of goal of environmental parameters to have and how much they can fluctuate to consider them stable or how long they have to be like that before it’s considered stable. I just feel like without clear minimums required to successfully keep an anemone then people just wait these arbitrary amounts of time and when it doesn’t work out become frustrated, confused, and some may even quit the hobby. With good goals defined, then at least people can feel confident they know their tank has a reasonable chance of successfully hosting an anemone.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

So this question is quite broad and is subject to Massive interpretation.

Insofar as I will use "Mature" or "establish" even talking about being ready for an anenome, I would say a Mature tank
-has gone through initial and subsequent ugly phases and is no longer prone to undesirable algae blooms.
-has well defined, Stable Parameters. Anenomes will do well in a Range of nutrient levels from 5 NO3-300, .05 PO4 to 2.5+. I'm thinking stability over an exact number
-the tank has been running long enough for various types of bacterium, to colonize the various surfaces from glass to your filtration, sand Ect.
-flow and lighting are not being messed with constantly.

My $.02

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

This may be true, but what is the reason for the flourishing acro? It would be nice for there to be some kind of goal of environmental parameters to have and how much they can fluctuate to consider them stable or how long they have to be like that before it’s considered stable. I just feel like without clear minimums required to successfully keep an anemone then people just wait these arbitrary amounts of time and when it doesn’t work out become frustrated, confused, and some may even quit the hobby. With good goals defined, then at least people can feel confident they know their tank has a reasonable chance of successfully hosting an anemone.

Maintaining acro are Way different parameters then housing nems. My nems did great 100 nitrates and 2 phos. Acro would faceplant into I HATE YOU land at those numbers. The needs are different

 

[ReefLife_Guy]

So this question is quite broad and is subject to Massive interpretation.

Insofar as I will use "Mature" or "establish" even talking about being ready for an anenome, I would say a Mature tank
-has gone through initial and subsequent ugly phases and is no longer prone to undesirable algae blooms.
-has well defined, Stable Parameters. Anenomes will do well in a Range of nutrient levels from 5 NO3-300, .05 PO4 to 2.5+. I'm thinking stability over an exact number
-the tank has been running long enough for various types of bacterium, to colonize the various surfaces from glass to your filtration, sand Ect.
-flow and lighting are not being messed with constantly.

My $.02

Yes that’s why I think it’s not really a great response to someone’s question of when is the right time for them to add an anemone. Your response here at least gives people more defined goals to achieve before they attempt getting one. Ideally we could have even more specific guidelines as to which of these matters most to the health of an anemone. While I’m sure many experts would agree a diverse microbiome is beneficial for any reef tank, is this required for you to have thriving anemones? Also aren’t you always balancing nutrients in your water and the risk for nuisance algae? Are people who do regular water changes, have stable nitrates/phosphates and lighting, having undesirable algae blooms? Stability seems to be key to success for anemones. If those ideal water parameters are stable for a period of time you wouldn’t expect unpredictable algae or bacterial blooms right?

So could we not just say, if you can keep xyz parameters in xyz range and not have them fluctuate more than xyz% in a xyz time frame then your tank is stable enough to attempt keeping an anemone? Every situation is of course unique and requires different kinds of troubleshooting but if we could define some minimum guidelines like this for success, at least people will have a quantifiable way of knowing when they are “ready”.

 

[gbroadbridge]

It's when the tank is biologically stable which can only occur after time, and after adding lots of type of life to the tank.

It really has very little to do with chemical stability and tank parameters, which is really quite easy to achieve with many different types of dosing methods.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Yes that’s why I think it’s not really a great response to someone’s question of when is the right time for them to add an anemone. Your response here at least gives people more defined goals to achieve before they attempt getting one. Ideally we could have even more specific guidelines as to which of these matters most to the health of an anemone.

Anenomes Thrive in a WIDER array of sets.

Mature as defined above really IS the best answer to That question. Not when you hit an arbitrary number on nitrates phosphates alkalinity for an arbitrary amount of time.

I will bet that I can order 50 lb of KP live rock, jumpstart a 40 breeder, and transfer half a dozen BTA into there and not have a problem. That ROCK is nature, and will cover up for a lot of shortcoming. That doesn't mean, it's best practice.

While I’m sure many experts would agree a diverse microbiome is beneficial for any reef tank, is this required for you to have thriving anemones?

Anecdotally, There are probably half a dozen posts a week in the clownfish and anemone section of very ticked off nems, in very new immature tanks, trying to get it healthy.

Very rarely have I seen and read here the same constant set of issues in mature tanks.

Also aren’t you always balancing nutrients in your water and the risk for nuisance algae?

The maturity of your biome, helps with this as well.

I Can't grow algae. My rock is ocean, and been in tanks for 20+ years. Check my build thread. I'm a functioning idiot. A mature system can pull a lot of weight in a lot of areas.

Are people who do regular water changes, have stable nitrates/phosphates and lighting, having undesirable algae blooms?

No, not really.

Stability seems to be key to success for anemones. If those ideal water parameters are stable for a period of time you wouldn’t expect unpredictable algae or bacterial blooms right?

Nope

So could we not just say, if you can keep xyz parameters in xyz range and not have them fluctuate more than xyz% in a xyz time frame then your tank is stable enough to attempt keeping an anemone? Every situation is of course unique and requires different kinds of troubleshooting but if we could define some minimum guidelines like this for success, at least people will have a quantifiable way of knowing when they are “ready”.

Interested for discussion.

Question, when is the best time to add an anenome?

Answer: when it is stable and has had time to mature.

May I ask, why you have an issue with the answer in the first place? Why do we Need a drilled down set of numbers, and percentages?

I think when someone has taken THEIR tank through start up, dealing with all kinds of issues then coming out the other end, they Know when it is maturing.

They don't need numbers and percentages. Anenomes don't care about the Numbers and percentages( my nems care about alk...)

 

[PeterEde]

For me, when you can drop in an acro from any source and watch it flourish.

Just put in my first acro. Not seeing a lot of flourish after 2 weeks but it's still alive.
My tank is coming up on 7 months.

 

[PeterEde]

I put a BTA in my tank at 2 months. The tips never popped. It otherwise looked healthy and happy until it died.
I'm now at near 7 months and still not game to put another in.

 

[DarkReefer]

I suspect a lot of people suggest a 'mature' tank in order to deter newbies into purchasing the flashiest things (like nems) potentially killing them quickly. These are animals after all and it is sad to see something that could've lived elsewhere die because of improper care.

Suggesting a 'mature' tank I think allows time for the newbies to get some experience under their belt with some other corals and fish and the like. Allowing them to go through the learning process with what is considered 'known' to be more forgiving corals. Having the existing bioload I believe would aid with something like an anemone to survive and thrive a little easier.

Just my take on it.
I've seen people get away with adding nems early on like yourself (or earlier).
I'm likely to do the same in the coming week or so as I'm having my old livestock sent over to me after a recent move meant I had to tear down my 1 and a bit year old tank and start over. (Tank has been up less than 2 months this time ). Not the ideal situation by an means, I'm aware I'll need to keep a close eye on things and I really hope it goes well but who knows how it's going to play out...

 

[Spare time]

Anemones get such a strange reputation. They are one of the easiest things to keep. They move where they want to go, they easily catch food, and can tolerate a wide range of lighting (mine prefer 120-150 for par). I've set up brand new tanks with them no issue. They aren't going to care about calcium, pH, alk, etc. (albeit if the tank had pH and calcium at extremely low levels then yes). The idea that you need to wait x amount of time for an anemone, a coral, etc., likely all has to do with how in tune a person is with their tank. People who are new in the hobby can do some pretty ignorant things (and that is not their fault necessarily, but those who are advising them, if any). I know I did, because I got horrible advice. If an anemone died in someone's tank, it is not because the tank wasn't "mature." It is likely because the person who takes care of the tank made some mistake that they are unaware of having made.

 

[ninjamyst]

Matured reef does not mean time. You can have a matured reef instantly if you prepare correctly. Matured reef is a result of stable water parameters and biodiversity. Starting / seeding with live rocks, testing often, using RODI water, providing adequate light + nutrients + flow. That's about it.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Good discussion!! I would say a reef is "mature" when it achieves stability and also diversity in fauna. It becomes a system that is (at some level) self-sustaining.

 

[ReefLife_Guy]

May I ask, why you have an issue with the answer in the first place? Why do we Need a drilled down set of numbers, and percentages?

My issue with this answer is that it is too vague and while the true answer is much more nuanced, I think people new to the hobby would benefit from understanding what it means to have a "matured tank". I also do not agree with chasing numbers but it at least gives people a starting place for creating an environment where an anemone can survive.

The idea that you need to wait x amount of time for an anemone, a coral, etc., likely all has to do with how in tune a person is with their tank.

This is exactly why I brought up this discussion. At least for me I feel like the threads and articles I read trying to get information about what my tank needs to be ready to keep an anemone, just assumed that if my tank wasn't x months old that it wasn't ready.

Matured reef does not mean time. You can have a matured reef instantly if you prepare correctly. Matured reef is a result of stable water parameters and biodiversity. Starting / seeding with live rocks, testing often, using RODI water, providing adequate light + nutrients + flow.

This was my thought process and why I think my anemones seem perfectly happy and healthy in my tank that is only 3 months old. Now maybe I am naïve and will have a disaster on my hands in a few months but I feel like I did my due diligence with researching anemone care and understanding the trends of successful and unsuccessful anecdotes.

Good discussion!! I would say a reef is "mature" when it achieves stability and also diversity in fauna. It becomes a system that is (at some level) self-sustaining.

I agree (although I would say diversity in reef biota as a whole, as I think diverse flora is also important) and I think these two things are intertwined. Can you have stability without biodiversity? I think the answer to this is no, unless your reef tank is in a sterile vacuum of course.

I think tank "maturity" and "stability" are easily assessed by experienced reefers but difficult for them to explain because it is not something that is easily measurable. Sometimes in science when there is not a reasonable approach to directly measure something complex, you look for a surrogate marker which is more easily assessed/quantified. While a surrogate marker is not 100% correlative to direct measurement, a good one can get pretty close. In my approach, I used the overall health of my tank inhabitants and consistency of water parameters to assume the maturity of my tank. I setup my tank with caribsea life rock and live sand, used RODI water for salt mix and top offs, did a fishless cycle using bottled bacteria, had quality LED lights, maintained parameters in normal ranges (temperature, salinity, pH, ammonia, nitrates, phosphates, Calcium, alkalinity), and for several weeks had healthy appearing corals, fish, and various invertebrates. I defined healthy inhabitants as ones exhibiting expected behaviors and appearance. I felt like my tank was "stable" and "mature" enough to add an anemone because the current residents were happy/healthy, my water parameters were consistent for 2-3 weeks with just typical maintenance, and also because I saw my tank reacting predictably to my inputs. For example, I had a GHA outbreak while on vacation for 4 days because I purposefully overfed with an AFS to make sure my fish had enough food. My tanks response to increased nutrients was an outbreak of GHA which soaked up most of those nutrients and when I returned to normal feedings, my nitrates/phosphates bottomed out and I had no new GHA growth. It was this predictability that led me to believe my tank was "mature" enough for more "sensitive" inhabitants.

Not to say that this is the best method/approach or will work for everyone but I think it is helpful to show people what examples of what a "mature" tank looks like and acts like. If I had to explain to someone what a "mature" tank was I would tell them a mature tank is one that maintains stable water parameters with typical maintenance and acts predictably to your inputs/interventions.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

My issue with this answer is that it is too vague and while the true answer is much more nuanced, I think people new to the hobby would benefit from understanding what it means to have a "matured tank". I also do not agree with chasing numbers but it at least gives people a starting place for creating an environment where an anemone can survive.

I think we will have to agree, to disagree on the answer. It is just as vague as it needs to be, considering being massive variability in acceptable conditions.

I do honestly believe that is the best answer. It's a lot better than, "It depends"

If JUST to be able to survive is the goal, personally, I think that's a bad goal. We should be trying to create an environment where they can Thrive.