What useful things does GFO deplete

[LadyTang2]

We all know GFO can be useful to reduce phos, but what are some desirable compounds/elements/anything that GFO might reduce?

This is from one of Randy's articles about what might be being depleted "including trace metals, arsenic, selenium,2 silicate, and organics. Metals such as manganese, cobalt, nickel, and zinc are known to bind to iron oxide hydroxide in simulated seawater solutions."

Which of these are most useful and depleted by GFO, others? Does it make sense to dose any of those things it depletes or should one just do ICP and dose accordingly

 

[rkpetersen]

Also binds copper pretty dramatically.
If you're using GFO, it's not a bad idea to add a trace element mix to your system once or twice a week.

 

[Reef Puncher]

it strips out nickel zinc copper iron vanadium cobalt and chromium. these are ALWAYS low in my tank. even with trace element dosing. but i have to have gfo or my phosphate gets too high and i dont want to constantly rely on lanathum.

 

[Christoph]

Hello,

We all know GFO can be useful to reduce phos, but what are some desirable compounds/elements/anything that GFO might reduce?

almost everything :)

see https://en.oceamo.com/reaktormedien2/

edit: We do generalle recommend to increase the trace dosing (transition metals and Selenium) when GFO is used.

all the best, Christoph

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

It’s an interesting, and as far as I know, unknown issue of the relative trace element consumption of different phosphate reduction methods.

 

[Reef Puncher]

Hello,



almost everything :)

see https://en.oceamo.com/reaktormedien2/

edit: We do generalle recommend to increase the trace dosing (transition metals and Selenium) when GFO is used.

all the best, Christoph

it absolutley KILLS my metals and selenium. And every ICP they tell me to do like 25mls of selenium just to get it to normal levels. it requires a ton of selenium dosing if using gfo daily. so yea your right.

 

[BeanAnimal]

20+ years and I have never done an ICP test. Are my elements missing?

 

[BZOFIQ]

20+ years and I have never done an ICP test. Are my elements missing?

People who don't do blood tests could possibly have extremely high cholesterol.

They often never know....or get to find out.

 

[BeanAnimal]

People who don't do blood tests could possibly have extremely high cholesterol.

They often never know....or get to find out.

The comment was meant to be light hearted humor.

But if you insist. I trust blood tests, where peer reviewed science is used to both diagnose and treat. For ICP and an aquarium, beyond a few base elements there is very little peer-reviewed research regarding which trace elements are actually important, or what acceptable target ranges should be.

Beyond regular water changes, there is little that can be done to correct elements flagged as elevated. Likewise ICP tests raw elemental forms, which may or may not be bio-available or reactive in the system in question. So adding specific "trace" may elevate a number for the next ICP, but does that trace do anything else?

I don't doubt that ICP may yield interesting and in some cases valuable diagnostic information, but in general I feel that it is mostly an exercise in feel good number chasing based on a "seawater" reference -- with little more than "we must match the ocean" as the underpinning logic.

For me, as long as the system appears to be healthy then I have no reason to dig deeper with a precise and expensive tool that leads to speculative diagnoses and treatment used to chase numbers "in case".

So no, I don't think your analogy fits. The tools may be precise, but that does not mean that the information gleaned is actionable.

In context to this thread, it is clear that ICP is perfect for cause effect analysis. The question still becomes, for most of those traces, what is actually used, important and what should the targets be?

Lastly - If I were to use ICP, then the only one that I would use and trust at this point would be Christoph's.

 

[BZOFIQ]

The comment was meant to be light hearted humor.

But if you insist. I trust blood tests, where peer reviewed science is used to both diagnose and treat. For ICP and an aquarium, beyond a few base elements there is very little peer-reviewed research regarding which trace elements are actually important, or what acceptable target ranges should be.

Beyond regular water changes, there is little that can be done to correct elements flagged as elevated. Likewise ICP tests raw elemental forms, which may or may not be bio-available or reactive in the system in question. So adding specific "trace" may elevate a number for the next ICP, but does that trace do anything else?

I don't doubt that ICP may yield interesting and in some cases valuable diagnostic information, but in general I feel that it is mostly an exercise in feel good number chasing based on a "seawater" reference -- with little more than "we must match the ocean" as the underpinning logic.

For me, as long as the system appears to be healthy then I have no reason to dig deeper with a precise and expensive tool that leads to speculative diagnoses and treatment used to chase numbers "in case".

So no, I don't think your analogy fits. The tools may be precise, but that does not mean that the information gleaned is actionable.

In context to this thread, it is clear that ICP is perfect for cause effect analysis. The question still becomes, for most of those traces, what is actually used, important and what should the targets be?

Lastly - If I were to use ICP, then the only one that I would use and trust at this point would be Christoph's.

Bean...thanks for keeping it nice and short.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Bean...thanks for keeping it nice and short.

I think it was reasonable and contextual given the context and analogy.

 

[T-Hart]

My acros deff. Have better polyp extension and color when the numbers match moonshiners expectations on trace. But the icp part is mostly important for those that don't spend $100's of dollars a month on higher end boxes of salt and would prefer not to do regular water changes. Its more cost effective and fun for me to engage that part of the hobby.I feel that for a beginner wanting to dive into acros or traditionally harder to keep coral, following a tight trace element schedule will yield a higher success rate faster then just performing water changes. Likely keeping people in the hobby within that first year of all the struggles with a dryrock new startup. We all say how adaptive corals are and if these natural or unnatural element are in the ocean then organisms and corals have most likely adapted to having them long before we were putting them in boxes of water with artificial lighting to keep them alive. I'll do whatever it takes to keep my acros looking as close to those photo shopped filtered pictures that somehow had me spend $300 and inch for some made up name piece of Tenius...I'm talking to you RRU Angry Bird! Cheers!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

My acros deff. Have better polyp extension and color when the numbers match moonshiners expectations on trace. But the icp part is mostly important for those that don't spend $100's of dollars a month on higher end boxes of salt and would prefer not to do regular water changes. Its more cost effective and fun for me to engage that part of the hobby.I feel that for a beginner wanting to dive into acros or traditionally harder to keep coral, following a tight trace element schedule will yield a higher success rate faster then just performing water changes. Likely keeping people in the hobby within that first year of all the struggles with a dryrock new startup. We all say how adaptive corals are and if these natural or unnatural element are in the ocean then organisms and corals have most likely adapted to having them long before we were putting them in boxes of water with artificial lighting to keep them alive. I'll do whatever it takes to keep my acros looking as close to those photo shopped filtered pictures that somehow had me spend $300 and inch for some made up name piece of Tenius...I'm talking to you RRU Angry Bird! Cheers!

I certainly agree that water changes do not do that much for fast depleting trace elements such as iron and manganese. Foods add much more.

But there’s a big leap from adding nothing to full on icp and independent element dosing schemes. In between using a mix like Tropic Marin A and K or AFR seems to do very well, perhaps just as well, at far less efforts and cost.