Whats on my sand!?

[Steamreefer]

Hey all, trying to i.d this and not having much luck.

 

[Steamreefer]

Here's a better 1

 

[Fish Fan]

I think the two big contenders here would be diatoms or dinoflagellate, or a combination of both

How long has the tank been running?

 

[Steamreefer]

About 9 months

I think the two big contenders here would be diatoms or dinoflagellate, or a combination of both

How long has the tank been running?

 

[Fish Fan]

About 9 months

If it's been that long, it's *likely* that these are not diatoms but more likely dinoflagellate algae. Just so I don't have to retype it all here's a post of mine recently that I think sums up dinoflagellate control pretty well:

...This is nothing unusual. If your tank is relatively new, this is likely diatoms that tend to run their course on their own, and in a short period of time they will no longer be an issue. They consume silicates in the water, and once the silicates are depleted, the diatoms will die out

You may then see some brown, stringy dinoflagellate algae, in fact you may have some already, it's difficult to tell from pics. Dinos are a bit more of a stubborn pest, but they too often just run their course and go away, though it takes much longer (many (sometime very many!) months) for that to happen. For that reason, reefers do take steps to counter the dinos.

There's more than one species of dinoflagellate algae that we see in tanks, and the "best" or maybe the most precise way to treat them is to first identify what you're dealing with under a microscope. You don't need a laboratory quality, scanning electron microscope, many reefers literally use a $30 kid's toy microscope. Hold your phone's camera up to the eyepiece for surprisingly good pictures that you can then post here on R2R for confirmation of what critter you're dealing with. If you have more money to throw at this purchase, decent Chinese made microscopes from brands like AmScope and Swift can be had for the $100-$300+ range, depending on what features you want. You don't need ultra high power 'scopes for reefing purposes at all.

All that said, there are some basic steps you can do to help with Dino's, things us cavemen did before we had things like microscopes for aquarium use

Dino's tend to pop up when nutrients (nitrate and phosphate) bottom out (go to zero or very near it), so it can be a good idea to monitor and if needed adjust the concentration of these parameters so that they are both above zero for sure. Additionally, manually siphon out what you can, and increase flow. There are some clean up crew critters that can help with Dino's and other algae too.

Here's a great post form the late @Miami Reef on dinoflagellate control:

Beating Dinoflagellates: A Complete Guide

I'd like to give my perspective on how I approach dinoflagellates in reef tanks. They can be challenging to treat and release a lot of toxins. I personally dealt with dinos several times in the past, so I've gained a lot of hands-on experience. I've done a lot of research on them, too. Here's...

www.reef2reef.com

Here's Randy Holmes-Farley's target ranges for nutrients including N&P if it's helpful too:

Article: Thoughts on Nutrient Target Ranges

Folks confused by all the different opinions on nutrient target ranges might want to check out this new article. I do not eliminate the confusion. I just give a detailed rundown of why it exists for logical reasons...

www.reef2reef.com

I hope that helps; good luck!

 

[Fish Fan]

And this video may also help:

 

[Fish Fan]

Dinos are part of a new tank's early life, but they can be stubborn, so it's a good idea to try to get a handle on them as best as you can

I hope that helps!

 

[Steamreefer]

Dinos are part of a new tank's early life, but they can be stubborn, so it's a good idea to try to get a handle on them as best as you can

I hope that helps!

Thanks so much. Ill look into getting a scope

 

[Fish Fan]

Thanks so much. Ill look into getting a scope

I wasn't telling you that you *have* to get a scope, so please don't buy anything because of me

A scope can be a useful tool, but by no means a necessity.

Can you list your full water parameters, particularly nitrate and phosphate?

 

[Steamreefer]

I wasn't telling you that you *have* to get a scope, so please don't buy anything because of me

A scope can be a useful tool, but by no means a necessity.

Can you list your full water parameters, particularly nitrate and phosphate?

I read on here you need to identify what dinos they are, but the brs video you linked says you dont need to.

Im interested in trying the copepods but the brs video suggests adding a bottle for every 25 gallons, just that many pods is over $120 here for my 100 gal. Is it really worth it to gamble on that?

Ill be testing my water right now ill update this thread.

 

[Fish Fan]

I read on here you need to identify what dinos they are, but the brs video you linked says you dont need to.

^^Correct!! You do not need to ID the dinos to treat them!!

Im interested in trying the copepods but the brs video suggests adding a bottle for every 25 gallons, just that many pods is over $120 here for my 100 gal. Is it really worth it to gamble on that?

I don't think so! Is there no where near you that has 'pods? If not, I wouldn't add them, or add just a little. They come in time for sure.

Ill be testing my water right now ill update this thread.

^^Yes, this!! Please list all you can: temp; salinity; nitrate; phosphate in particular.

 

[Steamreefer]

Salinity I check last weekend and I was at 1.0265 on the tropic marin floating hydrometer

Dkh 8.9
Nitrate 5ppm
Hanna Ulr phosphorus at 8ppb=.02ppm phosphate
Temp is 77

I think I need to be dosing more neophos I've been dosing half a cap to a cap every day or 2 and its consistently pretty low like this. I typically feed once per day and even reef roids at least once a week.

Also worth noting I did not rinse my sand prior to filling the tank.

As far as local pods, there is. Range from 20-40 a bottle and $30-$50 for shipping. Adds up pretty quick.

 

[Steamreefer]

Apparently heat can help so just raised the temp to 79 for now, turned off skimmer and will resist cleaning the glass. Do you think i should hold off on water changes? I do about 25% biweekly.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Dinos are not part of a new tank and generally part of an occurrence often with nutrient levels.
When we see zero readings, automatically we assume this is the cause but by the time you see zero numbers, its because the dino has consumed the po4 and no3 and are multiplying and in turn many dose no3 and po4 to bring numbers up not realizing they are feeding these flagellates even more.
Its biological deficiencies that are causing the dino structure and Its important though to identify the type of dino for most effective battle.
No light is first key followed by the addition of bacteria to overcome the bad bacteria allowing them to thrive
Prepare by starting by blowing this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles. Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10% IF you have light dependant corals such as SPS) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights which works as an oxidizer. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off. During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as micro bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons. Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED AMINO OR ADD NOPOX which is food for dinos, however you can feed coral, food which will help no3 and po4 to increase. If increasing nutrients, try to keep no3 to about 5 until you are done battling these cells.
Doing a daily siphoning will help greatly But . . . . . Siphoning will reduce nutrients , so siphon the water into/through a filter sock and save the water and return it back to tank. Obviously clean the filter sock each time.
You can feed fish as normal and if doing blackout, ambient light in room will work for them

 

[Steamreefer]

Dinos are not part of a new tank and generally part of an occurrence often with nutrient levels.
When we see zero readings, automatically we assume this is the cause but by the time you see zero numbers, its because the dino has consumed the po4 and no3 and are multiplying and in turn many dose no3 and po4 to bring numbers up not realizing they are feeding these flagellates even more.
Its biological deficiencies that are causing the dino structure and Its important though to identify the type of dino for most effective battle.
No light is first key followed by the addition of bacteria to overcome the bad bacteria allowing them to thrive
Prepare by starting by blowing this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles. Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10% IF you have light dependant corals such as SPS) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights which works as an oxidizer. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off. During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as micro bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons. Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED AMINO OR ADD NOPOX which is food for dinos, however you can feed coral, food which will help no3 and po4 to increase. If increasing nutrients, try to keep no3 to about 5 until you are done battling these cells.
Doing a daily siphoning will help greatly But . . . . . Siphoning will reduce nutrients , so siphon the water into/through a filter sock and save the water and return it back to tank. Obviously clean the filter sock each time.
You can feed fish as normal and if doing blackout, ambient light in room will work for them

Im almost through a 2 week treatment of microbacter clean.

Also worth noting that I dont notice any of it disappearing over night. Sand looks basically the same before lights on as it does at 6pm.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Im almost through a 2 week treatment of microbacter clean.

Also worth noting that I dont notice any of it disappearing over night. Sand looks basically the same before lights on as it does at 6pm.

Yes, the cells are fed by light and blackout is a must