When Buying Fish from LFS

[slingfox]

You really have to decide whether you want to go with quarantine approach or not. It sounds like your LFS gave you really bad advice. It is not difficult to set up a quarantine tank. All you need is a cheap tank from PetCo or you can get a used one online, HOB filter such as the Tidal line from Seachem (I use a Tidal 55 on a 10 gallon--hope to upgrade to a long format 20 gallon QT tank), and cheap heater. Add in a reliable autofeeder, some PVC pipe for hiding areas, and Hanna copper checker and you are good to go.

I know it seems painful but I have a similar sized tank to you and have had to pull out all the rockwork twice in the last six months to catch fish or do other painful maintenance. If you don't want to set up a separate quarantine tank you could theoretically pull out all the rockwork and sand and run copper and other meds in your main tank, then add back the aquascape once the fish have been treated.

 

[southeastfishaddict]

at this point to have to decide what you are willing to do and what style of reefing you want to do.

some have great success with out QTing and going for a natural biological style of reefing.
others QT everything wet that goes into the system.

both are valid approaches to keeping healthy fish., and like life, each has there pros and cons.
each has a methodology, tools and style .both has people that succeed and fail.

for the non Qting read @Paul B book on reefing.
for the Qted approach get on the humblefish forums best place for QTing that I have found.

so here you are you HAVE some sort of issue with the tank. it might be just to fast to soon, OR it could be velvet or ick.
I would try to ID what going on so you can treat for that issue.

you have 2 options.

1.pull the fish put in to a stock tank or the like let the tank go fallow and treat the fish. you may loose some fish in the process.

2. leave the fish on the DT and treat there. you will need to know what going on so you can treat for that issue. you may loose fish here too.
(seems like you are leaning towards this)

comes down to what you are willing to do. what the other half "lets" you do.

is this going to be a FOWLR for ever? if so copper might be a good approach. ( with hanna checker ) but the rocks will adsorb the copper power so you never can do reef with the rock with out a ton of work to get it out.

things like UV properly setup help in management, as well as high quality fresh foods with live bacteria. I am not saying that is a cure more preventive just like in us humans where good diet gose a long way in heath but once there is a problem a green juice is not going to cure that cancer right away.

basically with QTing you are proactively treating the fish,inverts ect. and not doing it one is managing issues that might show up. but very common with the supply chain and how we get fish in our hobby.

there are vendors out there that Qt fish for you so you dont have to. yes its more $$ but cheaper than loosing a ton of fish or the work of trying to catch them.
I am leaning towards going that route for my 200/275 FOWLR but it is tempting to either not QT at all and go with adding real ocean LR/LS the more biological way, but man loosing a tankfull of fish is hard we have all been there.

anyway good luck!

Thanks so much Devaji, for taking to provide your feedback - all good points

 

[southeastfishaddict]

You really have to decide whether you want to go with quarantine approach or not. It sounds like your LFS gave you really bad advice. It is not difficult to set up a quarantine tank. All you need is a cheap tank from PetCo or you can get a used one online, HOB filter such as the Tidal line from Seachem (I use a Tidal 55 on a 10 gallon--hope to upgrade to a long format 20 gallon QT tank), and cheap heater. Add in a reliable autofeeder, some PVC pipe for hiding areas, and Hanna copper checker and you are good to go.

I know it seems painful but I have a similar sized tank to you and have had to pull out all the rockwork twice in the last six months to catch fish or do other painful maintenance. If you don't want to set up a separate quarantine tank you could theoretically pull out all the rockwork and sand and run copper and other meds in your main tank, then add back the aquascape once the fish have been treated.

Thanks Slingfox, you motivate me to get going again, but this time with getting a little quarantine tank going with the simple setup. As you mentioned, it’s a lot more painful to have to tear apart the large display tank with having to remove the rockwork to catch the fish and then doing the extensive maintenance work afterwards.

 

[Mikeltee]

Stay away from that LFS. They are crooks. Two 10g qt tanks are a total of $20. Hybrid TTM method....

 

[Devaji]

Stay away from that LFS. They are crooks. Two 10g qt tanks are a total of $20. Hybrid TTM method....

that was my thoughts to but I believe he already has 20 fish in the tank would need 40 -10gal tanks to qt them at once.

 

[southeastfishaddict]

Stay away from that LFS. They are crooks. Two 10g qt tanks are a total of $20. Hybrid TTM method....

Agreed Mikeltee, unfortunately spent about 2k on fish that didn’t make it, plus all of the stress for my family & I

 

[Mikeltee]

Agreed Mikeltee, unfortunately spent about 2k on fish that didn’t make it, plus all of the stress for my family & I

Sorry to hear that. We all make mistakes. I lost over 20 fish to velvet within 24 hours. I have qt everything since. 95% of us learn the hard way. Unfortunately you will probably kill most of your coral too so just buy cheap ones for the next few years. Most people don't make it a year in the hobby so LFS tell everyone how simple it is and send them home with as much as they think you can afford. This is not the way as you now know. The good news is you can find next to new equipment for sale for pennies on the dollar.

 

[southeastfishaddict]

Sorry to hear that. We all make mistakes. I lost over 20 fish to velvet within 24 hours. I have qt everything since. 95% of us learn the hard way. Unfortunately you will probably kill most of your coral too so just buy cheap ones for the next few years. Most people don't make it a year in the hobby so LFS tell everyone how simple it is and send them home with as much as they think you can afford. This is not the way as you now know. The good news is you can find next to new equipment for sale for pennies on the dollar.

I agree 100% Mikeltee, i can see why most people would give up within the first year, but since I bought this huge expensive Red Sea tank in-lieu of building the garage, I have no choice, but to keep going, but do the same think you did and start quarantining and take things very slow ..

 

[Mikeltee]

I agree 100% Mikeltee, i can see why most people would give up within the first year, but since I bought this huge expensive Red Sea tank in-lieu of building the garage, I have no choice, but to keep going, but do the same think you did and start quarantining and take things very slow ..

I'm happy to hear that you are sticking with it. Petco has 50% off of tanks right now. I have 2x 20g and 2x 10g. That was less than $100. Check out the second post in my tank thread to get a summary of a good quarantine protocol. It's rather simple and the total investment is roughly the cost of 2 fish.

For spontaneous purchases, it helps to have a mixing station and heat your saltwater mix. You dont need the 100g tanks like you see on here. A couple of 15g Brutes supports my 130g and 40g with ease. You can keep a couple of bags of Seachem Matrix in your sump for your HOB filters. That way you can assemble a fully cycled QT system by the time the fish acclimates to your parameters. I always keep one running because I have the room. Copper is preferred to the Hybrid TTM method, however wrasse and mandarins are not copper safe IMO.

 

[southeastfishaddict]

I'm happy to hear that you are sticking with it. Petco has 50% off of tanks right now. I have 2x 20g and 2x 10g. That was less than $100. Check out the second post in my tank thread to get a summary of a good quarantine protocol. It's rather simple and the total investment is roughly the cost of 2 fish.

For spontaneous purchases, it helps to have a mixing station and heat your saltwater mix. You dont need the 100g tanks like you see on here. A couple of 15g Brutes supports my 130g and 40g with ease. You can keep a couple of bags of Seachem Matrix in your sump for your HOB filters. That way you can assemble a fully cycled QT system by the time the fish acclimates to your parameters. I always keep one running because I have the room. Copper is preferred to the Hybrid TTM method, however wrasse and mandarins are not copper safe IMO.

Sounds good Mikeltee, the sad part is that I did have an empty 20 gallon tank available, but I rushed to get the fish in the display-tank‍ Also, I was scared

I'm happy to hear that you are sticking with it. Petco has 50% off of tanks right now. I have 2x 20g and 2x 10g. That was less than $100. Check out the second post in my tank thread to get a summary of a good quarantine protocol. It's rather simple and the total investment is roughly the cost of 2 fish.

For spontaneous purchases, it helps to have a mixing station and heat your saltwater mix. You dont need the 100g tanks like you see on here. A couple of 15g Brutes supports my 130g and 40g with ease. You can keep a couple of bags of Seachem Matrix in your sump for your HOB filters. That way you can assemble a fully cycled QT system by the time the fish acclimates to your parameters. I always keep one running because I have the room. Copper is preferred to the Hybrid TTM method, however wrasse and mandarins are not copper safe IMO.

thanks Mikeltee, the sad part is that I had an unused 20 gallon tank available with sponge filters, but the fish shop owner dissuaded me from quarantining the fish. I agreed at the time, because I didn’t really want to have a few tanks going in my home at the same time, treating and changing the water out every few days, but now I know that it’s necessary. At least have one for now and just go slowly. What would you say is the max amount of fish that I can have in a qt tank..

 

[SheldonC]

Sounds good Mikeltee, the sad part is that I did have an empty 20 gallon tank available, but I rushed to get the fish in the display-tank‍ Also, I was scared

thanks Mikeltee, the sad part is that I had an unused 20 gallon tank available with sponge filters, but the fish shop owner dissuaded me from quarantining the fish. I agreed at the time, because I didn’t really want to have a few tanks going in my home at the same time, treating and changing the water out every few days, but now I know that it’s necessary. At least have one for now and just go slowly. What would you say is the max amount of fish that I can have in a qt tank..

If you're asking how many fish you can put in a QT at time, you're adding too much. Please slow down.

 

[Freenow54]

A QT is simple. It just needs t be a tank or container with pvc pipes and biosponges in a hob filter.

As for why they got ich, its because they were never quarentined and the fish trade exposes these fish to lots of parasites and diseases. An LFS will never tell you how many fish actually die from disease/parasites there, especially if they don't run copper

Just be aware a QT tank at least mine gets high ammonia in about a week. Water changes do not work The level is .5ppm

 

[southeastfishaddict]

If you're asking how many fish you can put in a QT at time, you're adding too much. Please slow down

If you're asking how many fish you can put in a QT at time, you're adding too much. Please slow down.

Ok, so there goes another useless reply.

 

[Spare time]

Just be aware a QT tank at least mine gets high ammonia in about a week. Water changes do not work The level is .5ppm

You can add bottled bacteria to work for that. Biospira and Fritz are my favorites.

 

[Freenow54]

trying some media by Fluval. We will see. I did not get an answer as to how else to do it. Last time I took the fish out emptied the tank, cleaned it, and started with new water. May do the same again or just surrender and put the fish in the display. This does not help me for the future, and a lot of posts insist on QT but don't mention any ammonia problem

 

[SheldonC]

Ok, so there goes another useless reply.

No, it's not useless. You're calling it useless because it's not what you want to hear. Why even come to the forums when you're going to blatantly ignore all the sound advice people are giving you?

 

[southeastfishaddict]

No, it's not useless. You're calling it useless because it's not what you want to hear. Why even come to the forums when you're going to blatantly ignore all the sound advice people are giving you?

it’s my understanding that’s what forums are for. It’s not to agree with everything you hear.

And I don’t know where you’re coming up with this garbage from. What advice am I ignoring?

 

[SheldonC]

it’s my understanding that’s what forums are for. It’s not to agree with everything you hear.

And I don’t know where you’re coming up with this garbage from. What advice am I ignoring?

It's not, but you actively ignore everything. Just look at all your other threads. You keep killing fish because you won't pull your head out of your butt and learn this hobby.

 

[southeastfishaddict]

Well keep in mind that I haven’t purchased any other fish from when I fist joined and posted on here originally, so really not sure what you are talking about. I still have the one chromi in my tank, which is why I initiated this other thread on how to proceed.