When did the BUYER become responsible for shipping delays?

[MnFish1]

this bit?

No - the entire post - "

Standard DOA guarantee: it is the seller who has responsibility of getting the animal to the buyer alive, unless specifically and clearly change ahead of time that is agreeable to both parties. There is nothing unethical about the the seller business practice, if it is clearly stated and agree by the buyer prior to the transaction, which was not done in this case,

We have no idea what was clearly stated by the buyer and seller prior to the transaction - Second - unless its published in the R2R marketplace in this scenario - I don't believe/think there is a standard 'DOA guarantee'. (at least I can't find it on this site). So - my point - it was probably not a good idea to say 'standard DOA policy' - by the seller - and if it was said - as the buyer - I would have asked 'what does that mean'? However if I was a lawyer - and I was writing a standard DOA guarantee - I would say - 'we are not responsible for delay in shipping, such as weather, etc unless it is due to a mistake made by our 'company'. And as I've said 4-5 times - I think the seller should have replaced the coral (or offered a refund) - and I would have made the buyer responsible for the shipping.

 

[OrionN]

@MnFish1

We have no idea what was clearly stated by the buyer and seller prior to the transaction -
.....

I read this as Live arrival guarantee. Proof of death required to be honor by picture of the animal within 1 hr of arrival. prior to open the bag.

I really, really need to go to bed now. Good night.

 

[MnFish1]

@MnFish1

I read this as Live arrival guarantee. Proof of death required to be honor by picture of the animal within 1 hr of arrival. prior to open the bag.

I really, really need to go to bed now. Good night.

I agree with you - IF standard DOA rules do not exclude shipping delays. Let's face it - the OP wanted comments - I gave mine. Not trying to be mean or argue, etc. Without hearing the sellers response - we're all just giving our opinion. I'm thinking about the legal phrase 'caveat emptor'

 

[OrionN]

@MnFish1
Per OP on his first post:

......... I won't bore you with all the details as I plan to post the sellers original thread and our discussion at the end of this thread. I thought standard doa meant the coral had to get to your house alive? All I got was " not my responsibility ". So my question is who's is it? Luckily I know all the ways to skin a cat but would hate to see some kid get jacked that doesn't have my resources. This rainbow splice is gonna make a.......

 

[OrionN]

I agree with you - IF standard DOA rules do not exclude shipping delays. Let's face it - the OP wanted comments - I gave mine. Not trying to be mean or argue, etc. Without hearing the sellers response - we're all just giving our opinion. I'm thinking about the legal phrase 'caveat emptor'

Standard DOA policy: animal arrive alive. The seller can specific condition where this does not apply. For example many sellers stated that they are not responsible for shipping mishaps/delay or if no one to accept the shipment first deliver ect…

 

[MnFish1]

@MnFish1
Per OP on his first post:

Yes - I read it - it doesn't change my opinion. And since the 'end of this thread' could be 2 weeks from now - I'm not sure how the OP will decide when to post.

When I make my purchase, I am purchasing a live coral and expect a live coral to be delivered to me. I don't care who fixes it - seller or shipper - but it is not my responsibility. Shipping companies offer insurance.

A live coral has $$$ value.
A dead coral does not.
That's damages.

Absolutely name and shame that seller. At least PM me their info so I can avoid them. May not be much, but I try to speak with my wallet when I can.

Right - the question is 'who is responsible for the damages?' Outing the seller is likely a violation of TOS after the OP has posted his side and not the seller. And besides - thats what the vendor forum is for - to help fix the solution. This is just a sort of pile-on - and no one except UPS or whichever shipping company should be 'shamed'

 

[MnFish1]

@MnFish1

I read this as Live arrival guarantee. Proof of death required to be honor by picture of the animal within 1 hr of arrival. prior to open the bag.

I really, really need to go to bed now. Good night.

Sleep well!!!!

 

[Blopple]

Seller is in the wrong on this one as far as I am concerned.

 

[BeanAnimal]

@MnFish1
You should read what the lawyer @reef_ranch wrote on the message of his that I quote.

In a lawsuit the lawyers on each side will argue different things or interpretations. Just food for thought. Maybe we need a judge and jury also!

In the end, some people are here to have a cordial discussion and share and defend their opinions, right or wrong. Unfortunately, others to dogpile or pander or heckle from the gallery.

Thank you and the rest of the folks who have simply participated cordially in an interesting and opinion filled conversation.

 

[Mvpemmitt]

Guess I should stick to my policy of only buying local. I’m not willing to gamble if I’m out of luck due to something beyond my control.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yeah it would probably be a 100 posts shorter and alot more relevant if not for a couple ignorant souls.

In all fairness you asked a question in a public thread in a public forum. A discussion resulted. There is no reason to insult people that may not agree with you or each other. We all learn from discussions like this and all become more informed.

 

[UMALUM]

In all fairness you asked a question in a public thread in a public forum. A discussion resulted. There is no reason to insult people that may not agree with you or each other. We all learn from discussions like this and all become more informed.

In all fairness I did ask a question, a very very very simple question which yourself and @MnFish1 decided to dissect and make way more difficult than needed. I never once asked anyone to agree with me and really was interested in what everyone had to say until you two decided to regurgitate all over it. If my comment insulted you in the absence of direction than I made my point and stand by it. I think some would make the case that prolonged agitation and ignorance go hand and hand.

 

[muffinmanXL]

In all fairness I did ask a question, a very very very simple question which yourself and @MnFish1 decided to dissect and make way more difficult than needed. I never once asked anyone to agree with me and really was interested in what everyone had to say until you two decided to regurgitate all over it. If my comment insulted you in the absence of direction than I made my point and stand by it. I think some would make the case that prolonged agitation and ignorance go hand and hand.

I hear you. Some people just get a kick out of being the “smartest” in the room.

 

[leicalux]

Hello Everyone, I am the seller in this case. I just found out about this thread and went through all the comments. What UMALUM said is mostly true except that he didn't mention I did refund him 50% of the payment. I had offered a 50% refund right from the start and did so after I thought we had an agreement when his last text to me was "Send what you think is right".

I am a hobbyist not a vendor. I started the hobby back in 2011 and had a long break in between and just recently came back into it. I don't sell often, just sell to recuperate some cost so I can get more corals. Most of my sales went through fine without much trouble. This is my first DOA due to shipping delay. However, I did have several experiences as a buyer that received DOA due to shipping delay. In those experiences, the sellers said they are not responsible for shipping delay and I didn't get any refund. So I truly thought shipping delay is not covered as part of the standard DOA. I don't think the buyer should be responsible for the shipping delay as well. The first statement I made to the buyer after I saw the DOA pictures is "Ah definitely not looking good. Shipping delay is not really my responsibility but it is not yours either. I can refund you half the payment. Sounds good?". We had some more discussion and the buyer's final text was "Send what you think is right". I naturally thought we have an agreement and proceeded with the 50% refund right away.

I have been wondering if I did the right thing since then. So today I did a google search "shipping delay responsibility reef2reef" and this thread is the first one that popped up. I went through the whole thread and understood the generally accepted meaning of standard DOA. It is my mistake and I apologize to the buyer. I have initiated a paypal refund for the remaining 50%. This should complete 100% refund.

Thanks everyone for your comments, I have learned quite a few things. It was not my intention to screw up anyone but it is my mistake nonetheless. Sorry for all the troubles I may have caused.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Well that certainly changes the narrative.

 

[Griev]

Well that certainly changes the narrative.

Time for 13 more pages of pontificating poetic that boil down to 'it depends'!

In all seriousness, I'm glad the seller came and added their perspective and kind of question the OP now for never mentioning the steps the seller took in response to their complaint.

 

[Griev]

Same question to you - where are live fish covered? in credit card agreements. I tried a charge-back - and received this answer - (paraphrased) "the seller shipped what you ordered, there was a weather related delay which could/should have been expected as a possibility due to the weather at the time. You received coral which you ordered despite knowing the weather in your locality. Both parties are responsible - and we recommend you work it out on your own". Now - this was multiple years ago - and laws might have changed - IDK

Honestly it sounds like you let the customer service person talk you out of filing the claim, which likely would have worked out in your favor had you pushed the issue. They have metrics around avoiding paying out claims, you need to push past their scripts.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I hear you. Some people just get a kick out of being the “smartest” in the room.

Some people just get a kick out of throwing stones from the safety of a crowd. That tends to degrade dialog unfortunately.

If my comment insulted you in the absence of direction than I made my point and stand by it. I think some would make the case that prolonged agitation and ignorance go hand and hand.

No mistake, your intent was to be insulting. Language like that simply degrades an otherwise friendly conversation. Thankfully, there are/were numerous other participants in this conversation that, even in disagreement, remained polite.

You told (omitted) half of a story and pushed a narrative that ended up with the tarring and feathering of another member. Will you apologize?

 

[skey44]

Hello Everyone, I am the seller in this case. I just found out about this thread and went through all the comments. What UMALUM said is mostly true except that he didn't mention I did refund him 50% of the payment. I had offered a 50% refund right from the start and did so after I thought we had an agreement when his last text to me was "Send what you think is right".

I am a hobbyist not a vendor. I started the hobby back in 2011 and had a long break in between and just recently came back into it. I don't sell often, just sell to recuperate some cost so I can get more corals. Most of my sales went through fine without much trouble. This is my first DOA due to shipping delay. However, I did have several experiences as a buyer that received DOA due to shipping delay. In those experiences, the sellers said they are not responsible for shipping delay and I didn't get any refund. So I truly thought shipping delay is not covered as part of the standard DOA. I don't think the buyer should be responsible for the shipping delay as well. The first statement I made to the buyer after I saw the DOA pictures is "Ah definitely not looking good. Shipping delay is not really my responsibility but it is not yours either. I can refund you half the payment. Sounds good?". We had some more discussion and the buyer's final text was "Send what you think is right". I naturally thought we have an agreement and proceeded with the 50% refund right away.

I have been wondering if I did the right thing since then. So today I did a google search "shipping delay responsibility reef2reef" and this thread is the first one that popped up. I went through the whole thread and understood the generally accepted meaning of standard DOA. It is my mistake and I apologize to the buyer. I have initiated a paypal refund for the remaining 50%. This should complete 100% refund.

Thanks everyone for your comments, I have learned quite a few things. It was not my intention to screw up anyone but it is my mistake nonetheless. Sorry for all the troubles I may have caused.

Love this. Glad there’s a conclusion to this whole thing. Been following along haha

 

[OrionN]

One side conversation is never good. I tagged the seller to the thread as soon as I know. I am glad that he show up.
I sold corals, and also buy online before.

For me, and I think in general for most people, unless otherwise stated the DOA agreement put the responsibility of the seller to get the animal alive to the buyer. That is the STANDARD DOA POLICY. Any deviation from that is fine as long as it is agree ahead of time.