What are you thoughts on selling coral

[Raptor777]

Hi All

I want to understand and get you thoughts on sellers selling coral in particular stating they are not responsible for delayed or missing packages “it’s out of their control”. Why is this a common trrend in this hobby? I understand it’s not the sellers fault but why is it put on the buyer? The buyer in my eyes has even loss control of the situation then the seller but sellers still have the audacity to put that. I know it’s different in a way but when you buy an item and it’s gets lost the person who sold the item will either issue a refund or replacement. I really wish more people would stand up against this and not buy from sellers who state this. Would love to know everyone’s thoughts on this

 

[Derrick0580]

Why should the seller be responsible for the carrier messing up? IMO this is why you purchase shipping insurance. If I sell something and I drop it off to the delivery service and send a tracking number my part is done unless the package arrives on time and the coral is dead. But if the coral doesn’t arrive until 3 days after the stated arrival date due to the delivery service, that’s on them. Buyers have known for a few years that you are taking a chance when buying online because shippers can’t keep their promises for on time arrival, hence why I won’t order livestock from the internet!

 

[exnisstech]

I see both sides but IMO if the delays are caused by the shipping company then they should be the responsible party. I don't know how many times I've watched packages bounce back and forth only to end up where it was already was at the beginning. The only positive is that you can choose not to order if you do not agree with the terms.

 

[paragrouper]

Everyone I buy from offers compensation in some form (refund/credit) if their products do not arrive alive. Otherwise I would not buy from them.

There are plenty of shopping choices—so choose wisely.

 

[Raptor777]

Everyone I buy from offers compensation in some form (refund/credit) if their products do not arrive alive. Otherwise I would not buy from them.

There are plenty of shopping choices—so choose wisely.

I do the same just wanted to hear what everyone else thought if I was in the minority with this

 

[Kellie in CA]

I have always said that I think the responsibility should be 50/50 buyer and seller in the case of a shipping delay.

DOA is a different issue.

 

[VintageReefer]

The seller is the one packing the item and purchasing the shipping. They bill us for it but they are the ones buying the label so if any claims are made for reimbursement it would be their responsibility to handle the process.

But to challenge things more I don’t think shipping companies guarantee anything that is alive anymore. At the end of the day it’s the seller responsibility to properly pack the item for a safe arrival

 

[ReefDreamz]

IME most good vendors will take care of you if the package is delayed and corals arrive dead/dying or if the package never shows up. Not with a refund but they will ship replacements or give you credit.

 

[Reefer1978]

You can always pick up at FedEx hub - but most buyers don't want to do that. I find that most sellers use this disclaimer for common sense. It's cold outside - go to warm FedEx hub to pick it up. It gets delayed by a few hours on a freezing truck - it's not their fault.

Shipping is a convenience, without it, local stores (and insane prices) is the only way to go. Having said that, I used that disclaimer also in the past, and never had a DOA due to delay. Proper shipping container with heat / cold packs and checking hub and local weather is the way to go.

 

[ekandler]

I think it depends on the store. The bigger the company the less likely they are to notice the hit replacing your 5 frags that got lost by UPS. The local guy who’s selling out of his garage may make 5 sales a month, so sending you a replacement because UPS lost the shipment is a huge hit to their business.

Shopping smaller business helps keep the hobby alive and costs lower, but they also don’t have the infrastructure or funds to help in the way WWC or TSA does when a shipment is lost.

If you have the means to support small businesses with the added risk, to me it’s worth it.

 

[VintageReefer]

If you don’t want to buy online, don’t. More coral for me nom nom nom!

 

[Zero_Cool]

How does a sellers DOA policy read on this? Not responsible for shipping delays vs DOA when it does show up?

 

[VintageReefer]

I read a lot of smaller sellers saying you need to send pictures of coral within 2 hours of arrival and it must clearly be doa in the bag

However. The same sellers use so many bags it’s impossible to even see the coral to know if it’s doa or not. And then opening the bag voids the policy

I had a situation where a coral came late, I couldn’t see in the bag, immediately opened and started temp acclimating. The coral was clearly stressed. I took pics and sent. Seller told me it has flesh and will be ok.

4 hours later the coral was throwing polyps and by end of the day it was dead. I sent seller more pics

Selller told me that warranty was voided by opening the bag but they understand the situation and I documented well…and offered me a replacement if I paid for shipping again. I didn’t quite think it was fair I had to spend another 45$ but I was aware of the policy ahead of time and they were offering to replace a $180 coral so I took the deal and spent the $45 to get another

 

[yanetterer]

The seller is obligated to provide a living, healthy creature. If there is a delay outside their control, that sucks, but they are the one promising to provide you with a live animal by shipping it across the country. The seller is also responsible for any contracted work (i.e. shipping). Those losses are a risk of doing business online. If a seller doesn't want to assume that risk, then they can sell exclusively to local customers, or find alternatives to ensure animals arrive alive if the shipment takes more than a day. This is why I don't sell livestock online and rarely even sell drygoods online.

I do think the buyer should take some responsibility though and not order during periods of extreme heat or cold, or schedule/modify delivery dates when there is a snowstorm in the forecast. The seller should be doing this too.

When it comes to refunding shipping costs, not getting refunded sucks, but may be understandable. The buyer typically pays for two things, a living animal and the shipping. If a buyer orders a dozen corals and two don't make it, they did still receive the shipping service and it was still beneficial since they received ten living corals. It may suck to have to pay another shipping fee to take advantage of your store credit for the other two corals, but you did still get a benefit out of the last shipping service, so I can see why that may not get refunded.

 

[JaimeAdams]

I think that it comes with the territory. If they have the disclaimer on their website or sales post that outline the terms and conditions of the sales terms you are agreeing to those terms by ordering.

If you find a killer deal on Acropora A+ that sells for $200 at your local store or $250 at the big name vendors, but find someone selling it for $80 that is willing to ship it with the assumed risk you are taking on that risk for a reduced price.

I bring in fish and coral from all over the world at the store that I run. I can order a fish from lets say Quality Marine for $50, but I can bring it in through a transhipper I can get the fish for lets say $15 after fees and freight. If both fish show up DOA I will get a refund from Quality Marine, but I won't from a transhipment.

No one refunds shipping. I just sent my buddy a package last week. With using my 3rd party shipping account and paying for the materials it still cost $70 to ship a 10" x 10" x 12" box overnight. Places are most of the time already eating shipping costs.

If you aren't comfortable with risk, go buy in person and possibly pay top dollar, if you want the lowest price it may come with some risk. All of this being said the store that I run does sell coral online and I've never lost any yet, but people should be aware of the amount of risk that they are agreeing to.

 

[VintageReefer]

For me it was a single coral order
1 coral - 180
Shipping - 45
Arrived late, torch stressed, signs of bjd, was melting by the end of the day, removed from my tank to prevent crashing my system

Seller said technically arrived alive and I opened the bag, I couldn’t tell the condition of the coral without opening the bag. And - if it arrived infected/dieing, we’ll technically it’s still alive at that point.

Seller acted like they were doing me a favor by only charging me shipping to send a replacement. Said I voided warranty by opening the bag and they only guarantee 2 hours after arrival

I paid the 45 for a replacement but won’t be buying from them again

 

[OrionN]

Selling live animal online? Not worth it unless you have a lot of time to waste and sell them in large volume.
Consider this: If we rarely ship, the cost of overnight shipping is not small. The animal have to be pack right before sending, it take several hours to pack and seal the animal and take to UPS or FedEx, during the regular working hours. If you have another job, this mean you have to take the day off to do shipping.
As a doctor, taken time off of work cost me A LOT, so this was a no go for me. I tried in in the early 2000 and just have to shut it down after a time or two.
Prior to Covid, I would sell my extra corals at regional frag swabs, meet a lot of friends and making about 1000+ each time, just for fun.

 

[OrionN]

Hi All

I want to understand and get you thoughts on sellers selling coral in particular stating they are not responsible for delayed or missing packages “it’s out of their control”. Why is this a common trrend in this hobby? I understand it’s not the sellers fault but why is it put on the buyer? The buyer in my eyes has even loss control of the situation then the seller but sellers still have the audacity to put that. I know it’s different in a way but when you buy an item and it’s gets lost the person who sold the item will either issue a refund or replacement. I really wish more people would stand up against this and not buy from sellers who state this. Would love to know everyone’s thoughts on this

Why would you automatically assume that they have to be responsible for it? If you don’t agree then simple, don’t buy.
Everybody need to make it worthwhile, weather it is money or fun to do certain thing. A small seller will not make a lot of money. Think about the other side a bit. If they can assume that risk and let you know ahead of time, it is their right. You are going to just have to accept the rush or else don’t enter into the agreement.

 

[VintageReefer]

Why would you automatically assume that they have to be responsible for it? If you don’t agree then simple, don’t buy.
Everybody need to make it worthwhile, weather it is money or fun to do certain thing. A small seller will not make a lot of money. Think about the other side a bit. If they can assume that risk and let you know ahead of time, it is their right. You are going to just have to accept the rush or else don’t enter into the agreement.

Agree. Seller should clearly take a stance on the situation and Put it in the listing. If they can’t afford to replace coral due to shipping issues, that’s fine, make it known.

Then buyer can choose how to move forward and decide if it’s worth the risk or not.

I will say this, buyers who guarantee their stuff are probably getting more customers as a result, and more referrals and future business

 

[Reefing_addiction]

Why should the seller be responsible for the carrier messing up? IMO this is why you purchase shipping insurance. If I sell something and I drop it off to the delivery service and send a tracking number my part is done unless the package arrives on time and the coral is dead. But if the coral doesn’t arrive until 3 days after the stated arrival date due to the delivery service, that’s on them. Buyers have known for a few years that you are taking a chance when buying online because shippers can’t keep their promises for on time arrival, hence why I won’t order livestock from the internet!

If we could insure our coral packages I’m sure we would