Seems apparent after reading this thread that tanks settle in whether sand beds exist or not, and regardless of whether they get cleaned....
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I did not say that i have not heard about it - but i ask you if you can explain for me the biological and chemical processes that you name old tank syndrom without using poster policy.Are you seriously going to say you have no idea what old tank syndrome is, and be in this since 72
What is the real result after a total bacteria breakdown of organic matter and how can that affect the water? How can something leak nitrates - whats the source for nitrates? what are the other undesirables? Heavy metals - if so - can you explain this analys result after 5 years of no sand rinse?And these areas, even after bacteria proccess it, are still leaching nitrates and phosphate, along with other undesirables?
Im sure you realize the sandbed is the septic tank for your fish?
Which brown stuff - never seen anyYou do know what that brown stuff is right?
Explain the processes behind an overload and crash and not rinse the sandbed. How long time does it take? what´s happen?Not removing it can lead to an overload and crash. Not just an overload of poop but also bacteria.
I do not understand what you mean.Dont play professor and ignorant at the same time
What is the best way to vacuum the sand? When I try it takes my sand out and then clogs my cipher.Many reefers have sand in their reef tank and many of us want to keep the sand clean, white and pristine! One way you can achieve a clean sand bed is to clean it! HA! Imagine that! One of the ways to clean a sand bed is to use a cleaning tool and siphon the detritus from the sand. We call it vacuuming the sand. Easy right? Not always. This can be a difficult task if you don't have the right tools or your sand is not easily accessible or you're lazy as well as other variables. This difficulty can lead us to not cleaning the sand at all. Then again some reefers don't believe it's necessary at all so let's talk about it!
1. When is the last time you vacuumed your sand bed?
2. Do you think vacuuming your sand bed will help mitigate issues in the long term progress of your reef?
Many reefers have sand in their reef tank and many of us want to keep the sand clean, white and pristine! One way you can achieve a clean sand bed is to clean it! HA! Imagine that! One of the ways to clean a sand bed is to use a cleaning tool and siphon the detritus from the sand. We call it vacuuming the sand. Easy right? Not always. This can be a difficult task if you don't have the right tools or your sand is not easily accessible or you're lazy as well as other variables. This difficulty can lead us to not cleaning the sand at all. Then again some reefers don't believe it's necessary at all so let's talk about it!
1. When is the last time you vacuumed your sand bed?
2. Do you think vacuuming your sand bed will help mitigate issues in the long term progress of your reef?
That´s not my standpoint - everyone use the method he/she have trust in - I´m only reacting very hard when someone says that this work for me and therefore it is the only accepted way to do it. When - without anything supporting their claims - just use total general terms without know anything of the complexed nature of a biological system. If you want to manual clean your tank , use filter socks and trust in manual work in order to get a working system - do bare bottom. If you want that nature should do your job and have stable and working system - use sand and do not clean. As usually - when you do anything between two seperate working systems - its normally end up in a mess - that´s my experiences.if everyone stops sandbed care and resumes hands off like the masters do, does your sand stay uninvaded?
they’re literally saying it will, let’s test.
all public tanks here simply stop caring for your sand, let Mother Nature handle it inside the box. All your waste will be mineralized harmlessly
if you don’t have a goby, add some.
let’s test complete hands off for the next five years, report back here.
I haven't vacuumed mine in 3 years. I have fine oolite sand so it would get vacuumed up. I would stop vacuuming it. But that's just me. Get a diamond goby or some other sand sifting goby, some nassarus snails and let them do the heavy lifting. A burrowing wrasse would be good too. 2-3 sand dwelling organisms should maintain it quite well. Depending on size of tank. I have a 350 and Have 3-4 sand dwelling organisms that maintain mine. It may take a few months. I remember the first year, the sand constantly covered in brown and red crap. After about a year and having a wrasse, goby, and pistol shrimp to sift through the sand, it stopped growing. takes time for it to balance out and vacuuming it just enables it to keep growing.So if I quit vacuuming every two weeks, the brown stuff will go ahead and cycle and quit? That is only reason I vacuum. I have had my tank up three years. 140 gallons.
I love the open arches. When that grows out it's going to be beautiful.Other - I haven't vacuumed sand in years, bare bottom and high flow is the way to go!
Go Lakers!I've vacuumed my sand bed ZERO times in all my different tanks for 35+ years. Never new it was "a thing" till I started reading on forums about people saying its a must and do it every water change. In my experience, not only do I do zero water changes I've never vacuumed my sand and from my experience in all those decades of not vacuuming my sand beds I can say it really serves no legitimate purpose. But if some people think it does something to keep the tank and its inhabitants alive, then keep on vacuuming.
You realize our reefs will never have the complete bacterial makeup of the ocean. We do not have the ability to maintain the environments they require. Therefore we are working with incomplete systems.I did not say that i have not heard about it - but i ask you if you can explain for me the biological and chemical processes that you name old tank syndrom without using poster policy.
What is the real result after a total bacteria breakdown of organic matter and how can that affect the water? How can something leak nitrates - whats the source for nitrates? what are the other undesirables? Heavy metals - if so - can you explain this analys result after 5 years of no sand rinse?
Have you heard about bacteria mineralization as an ecological principle?
No I do not - however I have heard about ecology and biological cycles - With knowledge of that - I get this result after 5 years with your "septic tank syndrome" - how could it been done if your right? (no sand cleaning and no regular WC (I have change 80 % 4 years ago))
My latest aquarium have run 5 years both without regular WC and no sand rinsing. it have a remote DSB with reversed flow - water from the bottom up to the top. I strongly doubt that this result - seen in the picture - confirms your septic sandbed theory. The aquarium content 40 + fishes and is feed with around 10 g frozen cyclops and 20 g frozen adult artemia every day (wet weight) - it correspond to around 5 g dry food each day
Which brown stuff - never seen any
Explain the processes behind an overload and crash and not rinse the sandbed. How long time does it take? what´s happen?
IMO - the to use of the word "old tank syndrome" as the endpoint of not doing sand bed cleaning is like to say to our children that you will end up in hell if you do not do as I tell you. No one knows what it is but all a afraid of to end up in that hot place without any questions.
I do not understand what you mean.
Sincerely Lasse
You realize our reefs will never have the complete bacterial makeup of the ocean. We do not have the ability to maintain the environments they require. Therefore we are working with incomplete systems.
Ill call b.s. on this. If you vacuum a spot by your rocks, or anywhere in the sand bed for that matter, you will see brown poop come out.I suppose you do not eat organic farmed vegetables either - it still poop but converted.
Let me do the math. I feed with 30 gram frozen food each day (wet weight) a normal conversion factor for philotherm animals is 1:5. all waste will not be poop - but say that my fish make 3 g pop a day, It means 1 kg/year and in my 5 years - it means 5 kg pop. 5 kg poop in a 300 L aquarium - it should be able to spot that - but no - you can´t spot any brown poop at all - if I stir my sand - its white dust. I have no mechanical filter at all. Put 5 kg poop in a 300 L tank an see if it works - it does not but because most of my fish organic waste has been converted - there is only minerals left.
That´s right according to the pelagic forms but normal sediment bacterial fauna is not very difficult to achieve. This is also a general saying that is possible to check today with help of genetic scanning and DNA analys as @AquaBiomics does. And as usally - when saying get fact checked - it is clear - its only sayings with no content in it. Of the around 30 most common bacteria families - nearly all aquarium have them in the sediment and water.
You talking about poop - but already when it leave the fish - it is already mostly bacterial mass.
Sincerely Lasse
What is poop if you leave the modern man's psychological fear of his own feces? It is bacteria, bacteria, bacteria, other microorganisms, organic matter not broken down during the hours in the digestive organs and inorganic matter. Nothing else. The organic matter will be broken down further in the sand bed (if you do not disturb it) and the rest will be bacteria, other microorganism and inorganic matter.Ill call b.s. on this. If you vacuum a spot by your rocks, or anywhere in the sand bed for that matter, you will see brown poop come out.
No I can´t - but I can deny that it is mostly organic solidsbut things you cannot deny solids are still left in the sandbed