Whole house generator and Apex equipment

[bar|none]

New. Yeah, everything runs. But I am spoiled and don't like to be "blind" about what is happening with the systems. Not sure why it sometimes reconnects and sometimes does not. Cannot find the pattern.

You can connect just the base unit to a UPS. That will keep it powered until the transfer switch kicks in. Also UPS on your router. I have UPS on my routers but not my base unit. So the internet stays on even when power goes out.

 

[ScottB]

I was just going to ask what a ballpark price to get a whole house installed is??? We are thinking about it this year. Was thinking 4-5k? Am I in the ballpark?

Where we live, you cannot reef without a genny. Trees fall over all the time.

I think they have gotten cheaper over time and certainly smarter. Mine is a pretty old, dumb, beast that cost several multiples of that ballpark all totaled up. It is 30kw though with a giant LP storage tank buried.

But I have neighbors with newer, smaller units costing around $8k to run 4-5 beds. The transfer switches seem to have gotten much smarter so you don't need a Cummins engine anymore.

 

[ca1ore]

I was just going to ask what a ballpark price to get a whole house installed is??? We are thinking about it this year. Was thinking 4-5k? Am I in the ballpark?

Depends on a lot of things. Size of the generator, where you live and whether you have propane or natural gas avalable already. I paid almost $8K for the generator, transfer switch, electrical work and permit … though that's CT labor costs. I did not have propane available, so tanks plus plumbing work was another $3K. I travel a lot for my job, so worth it to me. If I did not, I would have stuck with the portable/manual one.

 

[nbd13]

I was just going to ask what a ballpark price to get a whole house installed is??? We are thinking about it this year. Was thinking 4-5k? Am I in the ballpark?

We got quoted $6500 to install ours...

 

[Cwentz758]

Since you already have the expense of a full blown home generator, why not add a 1500 KVA UPS to run all your equipment and protect it from power surges, and voltage spikes. The biggest issue with using UPS units it they don't last very long, well you only need a minute or less.

Speaking of UPS do you or have you used one on some of your equipment? I have the ecotech batter for my return pump but for longer outages I’d like something to keep my heater going.

 

[Brian_68]

I have a standby generator also. It can be set to exercise itself every week or every two weeks. Runs for 15 minutes, but as others have noted, the power to the house is not affected. I suppose it's possible the system can be set to do a more robust test, by automatically interrupting the mains power to ensure the transfer switch is working; but mine does not do this. I do shut the mains power off manually every few months just to make sure the generator and transfer switch is working though.

I have found that the apex brain does not like to lose power, and mine behaved curiously when it did, so I have it hooked up to an UPS. That way the UPS keeps the brain powered while the standby generator spools up (only about 10 seconds) thus you don't need a big one. The only other problem I have had with a basement sump is that brief power interruptions cause a back siphon on my return line, which back spins the pump impeller, and the pump won't start up properly and runs the risk of burning out. I have the main pump outlet on my apex set so that it delays pump restart so that any back siphon is competed before turning the pump back on.

It would not be good for all your home equipment to cut power on a regular basis, that just opens thing up for failures especially interrupting things like AC units, refrigerators etc. when pulling high loads at the time of the interruption. If it happens once a year or so due to a power failure, every month and that would not be good long term. That is one of the reasons it just fires up to test but does not exercise the transfer switch.

 

[bar|none]

We got quoted $6500 to install ours...

Installation will vary depending on the difficulty of siting and what needs to be done.

You can probably save yourself some money if you want by being your own general.

For example:
Buy everything from an online place like generators direct
Get the precast pad option (easiest) or get someone to build the pad
What about fuel? If propane, your propane company can come and hook it up. You will need a minimum tank Size for each model. With my 22K, needed 250 gallon min
Hire electrician to wire the electrical

Consult first on siting because a lot of codes apply such as distance from any opening to your house including basement vents. Electric codes, propane codes, etc etc.

I paid $5200 for the generator and switch and everything
Prob $1200 for additional propane tank (rented) and hookup line to generator. Needs a big line so also new regulator.
Can't remember on electrical but prob $1000 or so
Some to a contractor to build a retaining wall to put precast pad one.

I think 8K was the total.

Variable speed models are nice because they can reduce RPM when not under heavy load which reduces noise and fuel consumption as well as better lifespan,

My dad did the same thing on the East Coast with an all in one generator place and it was more like $12k (Same model)

 

[bar|none]

It would not be good for all your home equipment to cut power on a regular basis, that just opens thing up for failures especially interrupting things like AC units, refrigerators etc. when pulling high loads at the time of the interruption. If it happens once a year or so due to a power failure, every month and that would not be good long term. That is one of the reasons it just fires up to test but does not exercise the transfer switch.

Correct on not doing the transfer when running on test schedule. Mine runs once a week for 15 min.

Regarding thrashing on outages...You also have options to bleed power if you are overcapacity. You can add auto-disconnects for specific circuits on these new smart transfer switches (additional cost for each circuit). For example, bleed off the dryer, the heat pump (emergency heaters) etc.

Soft starts can be added as well to specific circuits like the heat pump.

My electrician had a lot of commercial experience and some good ideas. Get a good electrician.

 

[CindyKz]

Ours runs weekly for 5 minutes or so. The transfer switch doesn't activate, nothing in the house is affected.

The one time we lost power the apex reconnected immediately. Important to note mine is hardwired - that may make a difference.

Our Generac is "almost" whole house, just a couple of outlets aren't on it (ie washer/dryer). It cost roughly $6K installed. We already had a gas line, although it had to be moved a little.

 

[alton]

That's awesome! Any pics?

Speaking of UPS do you or have you used one on some of your equipment? I have the ecotech batter for my return pump but for longer outages I’d like something to keep my heater going.

I used a APC 1500. The problem with UPS's is large heaters and large pumps do not last very long and put a large drain on a UPS, unless you tie a large deep cycle battery to it. Today I use Wyze cameras and keep a small propane generator just in case i lose power.

 

[14 foot reef]

My generator has an option to energize the transfer switch and cycle the entire unit, or you can bypass that setting to only exercise the the engine and not energize the transfer switch to divert power to the house instead of street power. My generator installer says its a good idea though to throw the load on the house also to make sure "Everything" is exercised including the transfer switch and the electronics in the controllers.

 

[HuneyBear]

It would not be good for all your home equipment to cut power on a regular basis, that just opens thing up for failures especially interrupting things like AC units, refrigerators etc. when pulling high loads at the time of the interruption. If it happens once a year or so due to a power failure, every month and that would not be good long term. That is one of the reasons it just fires up to test but does not exercise the transfer switch.

You should forcefully test the automatic switch at least every six months by turning off your main feed and making the generator work. More often if you live in a coastal, or humid area. The contacts can corrode and the autoswitch will fail. Also it’s better for the generator itself because it’s actually working. The weekly/bi weekly runs are just a jog run where as the engine starts and runs for the set time then shuts off. Think of it as going out and starting you car in the driveway then shutting it off after 15 min. It’s better to drive it around the block and move all the parts. When you do the forceful transfer you should prep for it with shutting off major systems like heat/ac and unplugging any sensitive electronics and the like. Your not trying to (work) the generator hard just work it. There have been instances where you get the transfer but no juice because generator head failure. The only way to know that is by a (work) run.

The ups only would need to power your controller for a short amount of time. But I’d make sure you are covered for power needed for 2 hrs minimum.

 

[ScottB]

You should forcefully test the automatic switch at least every six months by turning off your main feed and making the generator work. More often if you live in a coastal, or humid area. The contacts can corrode and the autoswitch will fail. Also it’s better for the generator itself because it’s actually working. The weekly/bi weekly runs are just a jog run where as the engine starts and runs for the set time then shuts off. Think of it as going out and starting you car in the driveway then shutting it off after 15 min. It’s better to drive it around the block and move all the parts. When you do the forceful transfer you should prep for it with shutting off major systems like heat/ac and unplugging any sensitive electronics and the like. Your not trying to (work) the generator hard just work it. There have been instances where you get the transfer but no juice because generator head failure. The only way to know that is by a (work) run.

The ups only would need to power your controller for a short amount of time. But I’d make sure you are covered for power needed for 2 hrs minimum.

Thanks for this info. Just lobbed a call into my service company to confirm if/how often they perform this test. If not, I'll figure out how to test it myself. Contract says they test "at the transfer switch" once per year "if accessible". It is accessible.