Why am I ditching the Neptune Trident

[BanjoBandito]

I sometimes wonder if devices are designed to be perpetual money makers. In this case, could they have designed it to be more efficient? Probably but that would be at the expense of bringing in a perpetual money stream. Either that or they're just a less than efficient design. That's just me speculating. I look at some devices with a sideways glance when I see the operating costs with things like reagents, etc.

Absolutely. I'm still waiting for a "subscription based" controller setup. I believe that's what BRS/Neptune is going to be doing (I have no real information on inside workings, don't take that as gossip/fact/whatever). Constant income via subscription is corporate America's new wet dream. So you'd join for a year at various levels - 50, 100, 200 per month and get equipment and support based of those figures. They'd send you the equipment "FOR FREE" and as long as you used it over a year (the service) it would be pure profit after that year.

 

[Wasabiroot]

I sometimes wonder if devices are designed to be perpetual money makers. In this case, could they have designed it to be more efficient? Probably but that would be at the expense of bringing in a perpetual money stream. Either that or they're just a less than efficient design. That's just me speculating. I look at some devices with a sideways glance when I see the operating costs with things like reagents, etc.

Absolutely! I think the ongoing cost (and potential lack of availability) of reagents as well as the proper maintenance to ensure accuracy often doesn't get brought up enough in regards to devices like the Neptune Apex.

 

[Karen00]

Absolutely. I'm still waiting for a "subscription based" controller setup. I believe that's what BRS/Neptune is going to be doing (I have no real information on inside workings, don't take that as gossip/fact/whatever). Constant income via subscription is corporate America's new wet dream. So you'd join for a year at various levels - 50, 100, 200 per month and get equipment and support based of those figures. They'd send you the equipment "FOR FREE" and as long as you used it over a year (the service) it would be pure profit after that year.

It also forces the company to make sure the equipment is functioning, bugs fixed and user feedback taken seriously. After all if the equipment doesn't work people won't subscribe or resubscribe.

 

[Wasabiroot]

It also forces the company to make sure the equipment is functioning, bugs fixed and user feedback taken seriously. After all if the equipment doesn't work people won't subscribe or resubscribe.

Rip Reefbot v1

 

[costaricareef]

I use the Trident and have switched from 4 times a day (4 Alk and 2Ca/Mg) to 2 times a day (2 Alk and 1 Ca/Mg). Seems to be working well with my CaRx. Slashed reagent cost to half. Why do you need to test 6 times a day?

 

[Karen00]

Absolutely! I think the ongoing cost (and potential lack of availability) of reagents as well as the proper maintenance to ensure accuracy often doesn't get brought up enough in regards to devices like the Neptune Apex.

I read some of the problems and oddities of some of these very expensive devices (and expensive to operate) and I shake my head. I could understand if people paid $100 because you're not breaking the bank at that price point but the issues presented with some of these higher end machines is crazy and especially if they aren't fixed. The adage "you get what you pay for" is supposed to imply paying a lot is going to get you a quality, functioning item (that hopefully doesn't bankrupt you to operate). :-)

 

[Wasabiroot]

I read some of the problems and oddities of some of these very expensive devices (and expensive to operate) and I shake my head. I could understand if people paid $100 because you're not breaking the bank at that price point but the issues presented with some of these higher end machines is crazy and especially if they aren't fixed. The adage "you get what you pay for" is supposed to imply paying a lot is going to get you a quality, functioning item (that hopefully doesn't bankrupt you to operate). :)

For sure. It kind of reminds me of owning a BMW. Likely you can afford the repairs, but they're notorious for constant upkeep, despite being a luxury, premium brand.

 

[likemike99]

are you having that much fluctuations that you are needing to test that much?

 

[((FORDTECH))]

let me start by saying that I absolutely love my Neptune controller. I have been using it for the past three years after an appalling experience with GHL that lasted another three years. I can honestly say that if I was faced with the choice of leaving the hobby vs being forced to use GHL again I would gladly leave the hobby. But this is for another thread. Why am I ditching the Trident than? In one word, stubbornness. In two words, Reagent Cost. let me break it down:

- I live in Europe where a 2 month reagent kit costs 60$ and a 6 month kit 200$!!! That means that in order to test Alk a minimum of 6x a day (the recommended minimum to use Trident Controlled dosing) I need to shell out at least 600$ per year in reagents alone. I have done it but enough is enough. Time to buy the Alkatronic+dosetronic package

- Why stubbornness? Well, I understand that you need to test Ca=Mg a min of 2x a day but what could easily be fixed would be to allow you to increase Alk dosing without increasing Ca and Mg dosing. So for example I could test 12x a day Alk, but still keep testing only 2x a day Ca and Mg. Although this would not completely fix the issue, it would make it easier to swallow. The second point is that Neptune could simply start making reagents in Europe. I am certain this would not be complicated .

The final annoying bit is the fact that I always end up throwing 35% of the Alk reagent out Because the Ca and Mg have depleted. Not only this is a waste of money, it is simply waste. Again, this should be fixed.

If I were in the US, at 100$ for a 6 month kit I would probably not look elsewhere. But at 200$ it is just unsustainable.

I right this with sadness, as I am a Neptune fan. I guess I hope they change their policies in the near future and I can get back to the Pentagon (Alk,Ca,Mg,NO3,PO4) auto tester :))

There is a way to use the advanced section of trident to changed testing amounts to even less then the manufactures amount

 

[Manny’s Reef]

My Trident only tests Alk four times per day, not six (12am , 6am, 12pm and 6pm).

Not sure why you would throw out Alk reagent when the Ca and Mg are depleted. I will open the drawer and feel how much is in the bottle. Then do a 'reset' on whichever Trident "thinks" is running out so that I can use the remaining reagent. Note that one needs to be careful with this approach so as not to actually run out of the reagent.

There may be an adanced way to program the Trident differently to tailor to your needs. I believe the fellow is @ApexGuy (edit: @SuncrestReef ) or something similar who has a ton of articles on Apex programming.

Regarding the $200 cost...that is a different story. Hopefully, you can find another resource for reagents.

According the Neptune, when you swap out Ca/Mg, you are supposed to discard the remaining alk reagent.

 

[Manny’s Reef]

I use the Trident and have switched from 4 times a day (4 Alk and 2Ca/Mg) to 2 times a day (2 Alk and 1 Ca/Mg). Seems to be working well with my CaRx. Slashed reagent cost to half. Why do you need to test 6 times a day?

How long have you been doing this for? Allegedly, this would cause problems to the trident itself. No issues so far?

 

[Karen00]

For sure. It kind of reminds me of owning a BMW. Likely you can afford the repairs, but they're notorious for constant upkeep, despite being a luxury, premium brand.

I remember the old commercials of the maytag repair guy sitting there twiddling his thumbs because there were no maytags needing repair because they were built so well. Then these companies realized stuff that lasts doesn't make them money and that's when they purposely built 3-5 years failure rates on parts and then made the parts (and replacing) so expensive that it is cheaper to buy a new one. In some cases I'm sure the failure is due to cheap parts as well. I remember my folks having an oven, fridge, washer and dryer that lasted 35/40 yrs with very few repairs needed. They eventually had to get rid of them because the parts were no longer available. They were lucky if their new appliances lasted 3 yrs before repairs were needed or just flat out died and had to be replaced.

 

[JCrowe86]

I would look up Poor_mansReef on instagram and check his videos on how to make a DIY Trident alk reagent and set up the Trident to only test alk. Calc and mag don't need to be tested every day and my Trident was never accurate with their readings anyway. I think he said it comes out to like $3 a bottle.

 

[costaricareef]

How long have you been doing this for? Allegedly, this would cause problems to the trident itself. No issues so far?

Only for a couple of weeks. Here is the thread that explains how to do it. Don't see how the Trident would have problems, but time will tell. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/f...e-tridents-test-schedule.854171/#post-9679775

 

[VJV]

I use the Trident and have switched from 4 times a day (4 Alk and 2Ca/Mg) to 2 times a day (2 Alk and 1 Ca/Mg). Seems to be working well with my CaRx. Slashed reagent cost to half. Why do you need to test 6 times a day”Need” is a strong word in reefing . My tank is in the living room and I have 4 kids, so we are a family of 6. I also spend the week in a different country for work so for SPS yes, I need to be able to control and monitor closely the tank. THe point about the family is that during the day I only have a housekeeper and the windows are open, while at dinner we are all at the table and windows closed. THe result? My PH swings 0,4 from day to night and with it the Alk consumption. If I dose aa constant ammount my Alk can swing 0,5-0,7 dKH in a day alone As my CO2 levels in the room reach 1300 ppm (the outside air shgould be at around 400ppm). So in the end, I do need to monitor my Alk several times a day to be able to adjust dosing and bring those swings down.

 

[VJV]

There is a way to use the advanced section of trident to changed testing amounts to even less then the manufactures amount

Yes, I understand that. But what I want is to test Alk several times a day, but not Ca and Mg. If you do not use the 2:1 ratio with the Trident you would have to start mixing Alk reagent from different batches with the Ca Mg. And you would also end up with a pile of Ca and Mg reagents. This would not help in reducing the reagent cost. My Alkatronic is already here . Since I have used the GHL KH Director for 2 years, the Trident or another 2 years, I may in the future do a comparison review with the three.

 

[VJV]

I would look up Poor_mansReef on instagram and check his videos on how to make a DIY Trident alk reagent and set up the Trident to only test alk. Calc and mag don't need to be tested every day and my Trident was never accurate with their readings anyway. I think he said it comes out to like $3 a bottle.

Yes… I am not one to DYI products specially when that could mean voiding any guarantee. If that happens whatever you saved in reagents you will loose in one swift stroke. Products need to work as I want them to and if they don’t I will look elsewhere. Again, at some 75US for a 2 month reagent kit in Europe devices like the Alkatronic make a lot more sense. And I am certain Neptune is loosing thousands of potential customers with this, something that they could fix simply by producing the reagent on this side of the pond. It is their prerogative not to do so, and it is mine to look elsewhere.

 

[guysmiley]

let me start by saying that I absolutely love my Neptune controller. I have been using it for the past three years after an appalling experience with GHL that lasted another three years. I can honestly say that if I was faced with the choice of leaving the hobby vs being forced to use GHL again I would gladly leave the hobby. But this is for another thread. Why am I ditching the Trident than? In one word, stubbornness. In two words, Reagent Cost. let me break it down:

- I live in Europe where a 2 month reagent kit costs 60$ and a 6 month kit 200$!!! That means that in order to test Alk a minimum of 6x a day (the recommended minimum to use Trident Controlled dosing) I need to shell out at least 600$ per year in reagents alone. I have done it but enough is enough. Time to buy the Alkatronic+dosetronic package

- Why stubbornness? Well, I understand that you need to test Ca=Mg a min of 2x a day but what could easily be fixed would be to allow you to increase Alk dosing without increasing Ca and Mg dosing. So for example I could test 12x a day Alk, but still keep testing only 2x a day Ca and Mg. Although this would not completely fix the issue, it would make it easier to swallow. The second point is that Neptune could simply start making reagents in Europe. I am certain this would not be complicated .

The final annoying bit is the fact that I always end up throwing 35% of the Alk reagent out Because the Ca and Mg have depleted. Not only this is a waste of money, it is simply waste. Again, this should be fixed.

If I were in the US, at 100$ for a 6 month kit I would probably not look elsewhere. But at 200$ it is just unsustainable.

I right this with sadness, as I am a Neptune fan. I guess I hope they change their policies in the near future and I can get back to the Pentagon (Alk,Ca,Mg,NO3,PO4) auto tester :))

you know you can program the trident so it only tests when you tell it too aye

 

[Macdaddynick1]

I would look up Poor_mansReef on instagram and check his videos on how to make a DIY Trident alk reagent and set up the Trident to only test alk. Calc and mag don't need to be tested every day and my Trident was never accurate with their readings anyway. I think he said it comes out to like $3 a bottle.

Interesting, we now need to get some brainiac to make the other two reagents.

 

[guysmiley]

Interesting, we now need to get some brainiac to make the other two reagents.

lol kind of a pointless exercise