Why am I ditching the Neptune Trident

[guysmiley]

lol

 

[Hermie]

Dude I test my alkalinity a few times a week. if I had a neptune trident I'd probably test less than 1 time a day. That's going to increase your reagent lifespan tremendously. Right? Stop testing so much; that's crazy.

 

[guysmiley]

According the Neptune, when you swap out Ca/Mg, you are supposed to discard the remaining alk reagent.

maybe they telling porkies

 

[seasand23]

I love mine, when it works. Seems to act up every single time I change reagents

This. I just posted yesterday about thebrratic Trident. I have now learned to recalibrate every box. My Ca dropped to what I believe was around 300 when Trident said 470. My coralline started dying this week. I ended up testing manually and got 375 on Salifert and 407 on Hanna AFTER adding 80ml Calcium. Corals seems fine but now I need the coralline to slow its own demise.

 

[Macdaddynick1]

lol kind of a pointless exercise

Why?

 

[blaxsun]

Dude I test my alkalinity a few times a week. if I had a neptune trident I'd probably test less than 1 time a day. That's going to increase your reagent lifespan tremendously. Right? Stop testing so much; that's crazy.

You're assuming the reagent will last that long without suffering a loss in accuracy as time goes on.

By default the Neptune system tests 4/2/2 daily. When you're using Trident-controlled dosing, the more time between testing results in less accuracy. Right now, I'm able to keep my parameters within +/-2.5% of my targets every day, so I'm happy with the level of performance.

 

[Macdaddynick1]

You're assuming the reagent will last that long without suffering a loss in accuracy as time goes on.

By default the Neptune system tests 4/2/2 daily. When you're using Trident-controlled dosing, the more time between testing results in less accuracy. Right now, I'm able to keep my parameters within +/-2.5% of my targets every day, so I'm happy with the level of performance.

I used reagents that were wayy past the expiration and they were solid, perhaps trident can use calibration every two months, but reagents seem to be accurate even when expired. Even if they do degrade, wouldn’t calibration account for the shift in results given the consistent error.

 

[blaxsun]

I used reagents that were wayy past the expiration and they were solid, perhaps trident can use calibration every two months, but reagents seem to be accurate even when expired. Even if they do degrade, wouldn’t calibration account for the shift in results given the consistent error.

I meant degrading once they're opened. At the tail end of 2 months the calcium and magnesium reagents are noticeably less accurate.

 

[rhostam]

I sometimes wonder if devices are designed to be perpetual money makers. In this case, could they have designed it to be more efficient? Probably but that would be at the expense of bringing in a perpetual money stream. Either that or they're just a less than efficient design. That's just me speculating. I look at some devices with a sideways glance when I see the operating costs with things like reagents, etc.

This platform was developed quite a long ago. If you consider that, it explains many of the short falls off the entire platform. There was virtually no competition in this space then; still it was revolutionary. This has changed.

That’s not to say it wasn’t developed to maximize reagent use - consumables are big business in any industry.

I use a custom schedule. I don’t care for the fixed schedule options as I use Trident to give me a long term record of parameters, not so much the frequent testing for the sake of testing.

I’m eagerly watching the market though! Neptune will have to iterate to compete. Good for all of us.

 

[Macdaddynick1]

I meant degrading once they're opened. At the tail end of 2 months the calcium and magnesium reagents are noticeably less accurate.

So I opened mine about a month before the expiration, and then my trident broke down and I just gave up on it for 6-8 months after opening the reagents. Later, I fixed the trident, calibrated it and used my Hanna And salifert to test against, . I never had an issue or drift in the readings.

 

[Doctorgori]

I know there is a work-around for the Trident to test less frequently (someone posted the details on R2R). My Trident-controlled dosing works fine with the default schedule.

If you follow the default 4/2/2 testing regiment the reagents last approximately 2 months. If you change this the length of time the reagents last will vary.

You can reset individual reagent bottles.

I use the Trident and have switched from 4 times a day (4 Alk and 2Ca/Mg) to 2 times a day (2 Alk and 1 Ca/Mg). Seems to be working well with my CaRx. Slashed reagent cost to half. Why do you need to test 6 times a day?

There is a way to use the advanced section of trident to changed testing amounts to even less then the manufactures amount

I would look up Poor_mansReef on instagram and check his videos on how to make a DIY Trident alk reagent and set up the Trident to only test alk. Calc and mag don't need to be tested every day and my Trident was never accurate with their readings anyway. I think he said it comes out to like $3 a bottle.

I own a Trident and $110 or whatever every 6mos is expensive ….I saw that thread and I’m going back, to change my schedules to 2,1,1 …alk going2x daily
…I still double check my Trident with a Hanna checker

 

[gbroadbridge]

let me start by saying that I absolutely love my Neptune controller. I have been using it for the past three years after an appalling experience with GHL that lasted another three years. I can honestly say that if I was faced with the choice of leaving the hobby vs being forced to use GHL again I would gladly leave the hobby. But this is for another thread. Why am I ditching the Trident than? In one word, stubbornness. In two words, Reagent Cost. let me break it down:

- I live in Europe where a 2 month reagent kit costs 60$ and a 6 month kit 200$!!! That means that in order to test Alk a minimum of 6x a day (the recommended minimum to use Trident Controlled dosing) I need to shell out at least 600$ per year in reagents alone. I have done it but enough is enough. Time to buy the Alkatronic+dosetronic package

- Why stubbornness? Well, I understand that you need to test Ca=Mg a min of 2x a day but what could easily be fixed would be to allow you to increase Alk dosing without increasing Ca and Mg dosing. So for example I could test 12x a day Alk, but still keep testing only 2x a day Ca and Mg. Although this would not completely fix the issue, it would make it easier to swallow. The second point is that Neptune could simply start making reagents in Europe. I am certain this would not be complicated .

The final annoying bit is the fact that I always end up throwing 35% of the Alk reagent out Because the Ca and Mg have depleted. Not only this is a waste of money, it is simply waste. Again, this should be fixed.

If I were in the US, at 100$ for a 6 month kit I would probably not look elsewhere. But at 200$ it is just unsustainable.

I right this with sadness, as I am a Neptune fan. I guess I hope they change their policies in the near future and I can get back to the Pentagon (Alk,Ca,Mg,NO3,PO4) auto tester )

Yep, that reagent cost is evil.

I've not gone with the full testing as over time the tank is stable and the only thing that really needs to be checked daily is Alk.

So I use a kH keeper plus, and use bulk reagent.

It tells me everything I need to know to manually correct the dosage if needed, and I can watch and check remotely with a VPN.

Much more affordable.

 

[elcapitan1993]

Ghl is better. Big brain power.

And they’re prices seem to be the same across the board no matter what country you are in

 

[elcapitan1993]

This is the problem I am facing with another testers reagent, it’s only available in the UK and to get a 5 month supply it costs me 80$ plus 60$ shipping, it’s insane and I don’t understand why it is like this for so many of the reagents that can be easily made in basically any country

 

[blaxsun]

A 6-month supply is like $100. It's not cost-prohibitive when you consider that proper testing can easily save that in corals. And you can customize the testing schedule to perform less tests and extend the range by double (or more).

 

[VJV]

Serious questions, since I thought about using one of these for what I do now. Why do you test 4x a day? What would you learn that you cannot know by testing just one time a day? Probably 2/3 part and not a CaRx?

Also, why test mag and calcium at all? Again, 2 or 3 part and not a CaRx? With balanced input like a CaRx, then why spend the money testing mag and calcium?

I do run a CaRx and only test alk a few times a week, so thought about buying a robot to test it for me once a day, or so (even twice a week would be fine).

Thanks in advance.

Hi

The reason for testing several times a day is basically to see what you’re daily swing in consumption is. This will vary from tank to tank and most importantly, with the amount of CO2 you have in the air around the tank. The more CO2 in the air the more depressed the pH, the lower the consumption of Alk. If (like me), the number of people around the tank varies wildly throughout the day (during the day I have 1 person at home, windows open, and at night I have 6 persons ar home, windows closed) so will consumption. This effect is also compounded by the fact that corals will grow more during the light hours. The result of all this in my case is the following:

1 - During daytime my corals consume about 80% of the daily Alk dosing, so I have adjusted dosing in order to smoothout intraday swings. In my case thes could be as high as 0,7dKH. I would never have know it if I did not test several times per day;

2 - Dinner parties, cold weather with closed windows, etc… all this has a huge impact on my Alk consumption due to the impact on CO2 and consequently pH.

Now is this knowledge necessary or even useful? I believe it depends. In my case it does due to the swings in consumption amplified by pH swings. If you have your tank in a well aerated room that is never crowded with people, you may have small enough intra day consumption swings that will not be an issue.

But knowledge is king. Having this constant measurement tells you very quickly if your corals appreciated your new lights, feeding, an algae killing product, etc. It provides an open window into your tank’s chemistry.

With a Calcium reactor you may not want to vary your effluent or your pH inside the Calcium reactor daily to cope with periods of higher or lower consumption. Also, I would say testing for Ca and Mg ould be borderline irrelevant. In that cvase, I would much rather go with an Alkatronic just to test Alk. Testing 2x a day the reagent would last you about 2 years and it would cost 100$.

Hope this helps

 

[VJV]

A 6-month supply is like $100. It's not cost-prohibitive when you consider that proper testing can easily save that in corals. And you can customize the testing schedule to perform less tests and extend the range by double (or more).

As I mentioned in my post, in Europe, 6 month kit costs 200$. Also, it is only a 6month kit if you use the 4:2:2 testing schedule. If you go for Trident controlled dosing the min recommended schedule (and I have verified it, any less and the adjustments would even amplify the swings) it becomes a 4 moth pack leding to 600$ per year in reagents alone.

 

[blaxsun]

As I mentioned in my post, in Europe, 6 month kit costs 200$. Also, it is only a 6month kit if you use the 4:2:2 testing schedule. If you go for Trident controlled dosing the min recommended schedule (and I have verified it, any less and the adjustments would even amplify the swings) it becomes a 4 moth pack leding to 600$ per year in reagents alone.

I've run Trident-controlled dosing for the past year and I'm still using the default 4:2:2 schedule. Alkalinity is what I dose the most of, so it's worked out for me so far. It's possible that on a really coral-intense system that you'd want to test more frequently.

 

[areefer01]

Hobbies are typically discretionary expenses. Automated testing even more so. The long and short of it is we all know automated testing isn't necessary for a successful tank but it does help our quality of life. Safety nets of push notifications, trends, and automation of tasks be it testing, water changes, schedules, and more. Again not required.

The main take away from the OP's plight is the cost of reagents in EMEA. If you haven't done so a quick message to Neptune would be helpful so that they understand what is going on over there. I'm sure they already know but part of the issue is supply chain, container space across oceans, planes, and trains. Inflation isn't helping much either. Then there is VAT, etc. Maybe Neptune can make the reagents there depending on the overall numbers of Trident users. Not helping you today but maybe something they are either aware of or looking at. I don't work there but this is my take. The price is, unfortunately, what it is.

Reagent spill over and consolidation. Not recommended. Hobbyists do it. Some say it works. Here is why I wouldn't recommend doing that. Reagents have lot numbers. Mixing them isn't a good idea. This is why when a home owner or designer buys tile they buy it all at once to stay in the lot number range. Color, dyes, can be slight but it is possible and happens. Since I noted above automation isn't mandatory and the hobby is full of discretionary expenses toss them properly. I know first hand the lot numbers do indeed make a difference.

I can't speak for other hobbyists but when I used the trident controlled dosing using the lowest test settings at 4/2/2 it was perfectly fine. I was dosing ESV 2 part and didn't really have any issues. I can't speak if I bumped it up to the next testing option if it would have tightened it up. Maybe. I've since switched to TM AFR so stopped it. May switch back since my AFR dose amount is getting close to 100ml/day.

Cost. Not going to beat this horse. Trident is reagent based and we all know this going into it. We have to see what our own thresholds are and go from there. Sounds like the OP made a decent choice after their line was crossed. On the other hand if you think this tool is expensive wait until you see the competitor probe solution. As already noted back to discretionary spending so a known price to pay for automation.

Long and short of it is this. Automation isn't required. It is a quality of life improvement. Can't really place a price on that. Similar to test kits. Some are better than others. Some are more consistent than others. If one is going into automation of testing then being able to test daily is an important requirement otherwise why buy into it. Manual kits are fast enough, and lower price point, to do one or two tests a week...

Just my take on it. Sorry the reagents are so expensive over in EMEA.

 

[awais98]

A simple look at beautiful tank threads before the trident even came out shows me just how necessary it is.

Calcium reactor