Why are people so excited over KH automation?

[rtparty]

What's 3?

First rule of KH Automation Club is we don't talk about 3

 

[Battlecorals]

I think the older I get, the less I care about futzing around with electronic devices. So it really has to make my life easier and it really has to be a good value.
I'm past the point of just wanting cool new toys. I'd rather keep things as simple as possible. Or it has to really add value in some way.
This is why I'm wondering what is so enticing about hardware like kh director, alkatronic, etc.
Explain it to me like I'm 5!

My feelings about Alk in general:
1. It's the easiest thing to test for. I use a hanna checker. From start to finish it probably takes me ~60 seconds. So NOT having to check it is not really doing me much of a favor.
2. Alk is so easy to keep stable once your tank is cruising. I'm less than 6 months in on the new tank and I test Alk around once per week and it's stable. Will eventually go longer.
3. A standard doser is so easy.
4. There are so many other elements to worry about... why so concerned with just Alk? If there is a sudden increase in Alk uptake, well then the same is probably true for calcium. Seems like there is no a bigger chance of things going out of balance.

So what am I missing? Why are these things so enticing?
I'm really curious and wondering if i *should* be wanting one or if it doesn't fit my style of reefing.

Wow I feel like I’m listening to the voice in my head reading your post man

I had the original KH guardian right when it came out back in like late 2016 and had it set up for a while and it was cool but it was kind of high maintenance. between pH probes and emptying reservoirs and all this crap I took it down to clean once, and never set it back up and I’ve just been doing the daily Salifert test kit like I had been prior ever since.

needless to say, I’ve gotta used kh guardian, and we can get rid of cheap lol

 

[n2585722]

I started using the Kamoer KH Carer the last part of November. After the my Hydros had access to the readings I set up dynamic dosing for All For Reef and KH buffering that is dependent on the alkalinity reading. I check it 4 times a day. The test takes about 30 minutes to complete and about 30 minutes after that the Hydros dispenses a dose depending on the reading. So I dose 4 times a day also. I still check it with the Hanna tester and usually they are close to each other. The tank seems to look a lot better overall now. I usually have about a .4 dKH swing during a day. The morning test is usually the higher and the night test is usually the lowest. Manually testing I was not aware of this. So far I have been very pleased with how it has worked.

 

[Alex7845]

I am using the rf kh keeper. After a painful setup- it took a while to get it well calibrated- it runs super smoothly and gives an accurate automated reading that i trust

peace of mind during busy work weeks and travel when i am not able to keep an eye on everything. Kh is the most important sentinel parameter. Not much else to say…
If you can afford it is highly recommended

 

[gbroadbridge]

I think the older I get, the less I care about futzing around with electronic devices. So it really has to make my life easier and it really has to be a good value.
I'm past the point of just wanting cool new toys. I'd rather keep things as simple as possible. Or it has to really add value in some way.
This is why I'm wondering what is so enticing about hardware like kh director, alkatronic, etc.
Explain it to me like I'm 5!

My feelings about Alk in general:
1. It's the easiest thing to test for. I use a hanna checker. From start to finish it probably takes me ~60 seconds. So NOT having to check it is not really doing me much of a favor.
2. Alk is so easy to keep stable once your tank is cruising. I'm less than 6 months in on the new tank and I test Alk around once per week and it's stable. Will eventually go longer.
3. A standard doser is so easy.
4. There are so many other elements to worry about... why so concerned with just Alk? If there is a sudden increase in Alk uptake, well then the same is probably true for calcium. Seems like there is no a bigger chance of things going out of balance.

So what am I missing? Why are these things so enticing?
I'm really curious and wondering if i *should* be wanting one or if it doesn't fit my style of reefing.

I spend 6 weeks out of every 10 weeks travelling overseas for business.

If something goes wrong, my Alk can easily drop by 3dKh in one day, so auto testing and dosing is the only thing that can let me know of a problem fast enough to prevent a tank crash.

 

[Alex7845]

I think the older I get, the less I care about futzing around with electronic devices. So it really has to make my life easier and it really has to be a good value.
I'm past the point of just wanting cool new toys. I'd rather keep things as simple as possible. Or it has to really add value in some way.
This is why I'm wondering what is so enticing about hardware like kh director, alkatronic, etc.
Explain it to me like I'm 5!

My feelings about Alk in general:
1. It's the easiest thing to test for. I use a hanna checker. From start to finish it probably takes me ~60 seconds. So NOT having to check it is not really doing me much of a favor.
2. Alk is so easy to keep stable once your tank is cruising. I'm less than 6 months in on the new tank and I test Alk around once per week and it's stable. Will eventually go longer.
3. A standard doser is so easy.
4. There are so many other elements to worry about... why so concerned with just Alk? If there is a sudden increase in Alk uptake, well then the same is probably true for calcium. Seems like there is no a bigger chance of things going out of balance.

So what am I missing? Why are these things so enticing?
I'm really curious and wondering if i *should* be wanting one or if it doesn't fit my style of reefing.

I wonder if that was just trolling or an actual q

 

[Aquariumaddictuk]

I think the older I get, the less I care about futzing around with electronic devices. So it really has to make my life easier and it really has to be a good value.
I'm past the point of just wanting cool new toys. I'd rather keep things as simple as possible. Or it has to really add value in some way.
This is why I'm wondering what is so enticing about hardware like kh director, alkatronic, etc.
Explain it to me like I'm 5!

My feelings about Alk in general:
1. It's the easiest thing to test for. I use a hanna checker. From start to finish it probably takes me ~60 seconds. So NOT having to check it is not really doing me much of a favor.
2. Alk is so easy to keep stable once your tank is cruising. I'm less than 6 months in on the new tank and I test Alk around once per week and it's stable. Will eventually go longer.
3. A standard doser is so easy.
4. There are so many other elements to worry about... why so concerned with just Alk? If there is a sudden increase in Alk uptake, well then the same is probably true for calcium. Seems like there is no a bigger chance of things going out of balance.

So what am I missing? Why are these things so enticing?
I'm really curious and wondering if i *should* be wanting one or if it doesn't fit my style of reefing.

Im puzzled by this too! I use the same sera KH test i have for years in freshwater & it takes literally seconds.no cleaning/calibrating probes or huge expense.but its not as shiny or visually impressive as a £700 KH tester i guess.i can see how one would be helpful if you take extended hollidays/work away etc having said all that.

 

[Reefering1]

Im puzzled by this too! I use the same sera KH test i have for years in freshwater & it takes literally seconds.no cleaning/calibrating probes or huge expense.but its not as shiny or visually impressive as a £700 KH tester i guess.i can see how one would be helpful if you take extended hollidays/work away etc having said all that.

Or..., if you're not a top level reef master and can use some help understanding what is going on with your stony corals. Plain and simple- if consumption slows, something is wrong. Question is how long does it take to realize... I think the people with this perspective haven't used one for a month or more. Or sit at home all day testing and fiddling with their tank

 

[GarrettT]

The more mature your tank is, the more value it will bring. I use a carx, so I won’t ever need it.

 

[homer1475]

The more mature your tank is, the more value it will bring. I use a carx, so I won’t ever need it.

Now i would think just the opposite. The more mature my system gets, the less I need to test simply because everything has already been dialed in over the years. There is less swings with a mature system then there is with a newer system .

 

[GarrettT]

Now i would think just the opposite. The more mature my system gets, the less I need to test simply because everything has already been dialed in over the years. There is less swings with a mature system then there is with a newer system .

Poor choice of words. Replace mature with developed.

 

[zoomonster]

I've been around long enough I've tried most all of the aquarium methods and used most of the bleeding edge hardware. You tend to figure out what works and what doesn't along with what hardware/companies to trust. At the same time, it's made me more skeptical and untrusting of a lot of these companies. I've looked at all the KH/automated testing gadgets at one time or the other but never bit. I'm also not really into the whole dosing thing where they milk you forever for overpriced additives and problematic doser hardware. Sure, I may manually add some strontium, iodine etc. but for the most part my CaRx handles calcium, alk and magnesium(additional media). Sure, the reactor, CO2 controller and tank, media and a PH control have an initial cost but minimal maintenance costs. For trace and everything else there's the old mainstay of changing water. I'm fairly close to full automation but nowhere close to trusting anyone's automated testing or salinity probe to actually control anything in the tank. I'd love to throw the Hanna, Salifert and Redsea tests in the garbage for a fully automated and reliable one solution tester but we aren't there yet. There's ICMP but that's really an occasional deep analysis and probably not something you want to do weekly.

 

[d2mini]

I wonder if that was just trolling or an actual q

I guess you don't know me. lol

Definitely a serious question. Been in the hobby for so long, just didn't understand the point since like I pointed out, unless something is broken, Alk should stay pretty dang stable day to day. So far, frequent travel seems to be the only reason that for me would make it worth it.

 

[d2mini]

Or sit at home all day testing and fiddling with their tank

I dunno... i do sit at home (work from home) but my current tank is only 5-6 months old and my alk testing is down to around 5-8 days now. Unless I need to make an adjustment, then I'll check again in a couple days.

 

[d2mini]

I've been around long enough I've tried most all of the aquarium methods and used most of the bleeding edge hardware. You tend to figure out what works and what doesn't along with what hardware/companies to trust. At the same time, it's made me more skeptical and untrusting of a lot of these companies. I've looked at all the KH/automated testing gadgets at one time or the other but never bit. I'm also not really into the whole dosing thing where they milk you forever for overpriced additives and problematic doser hardware. Sure, I may manually add some strontium, iodine etc. but for the most part my CaRx handles calcium, alk and magnesium(additional media). Sure, the reactor, CO2 controller and tank, media and a PH control have an initial cost but minimal maintenance costs. For trace and everything else there's the old mainstay of changing water. I'm fairly close to full automation but nowhere close to trusting anyone's automated testing or salinity probe to actually control anything in the tank. I'd love to throw the Hanna, Salifert and Redsea tests in the garbage for a fully automated and reliable one solution tester but we aren't there yet. There's ICMP but that's really an occasional deep analysis and probably not something you want to do weekly.

CaRx is definitely my fav way to go on bigger tanks or where you have the room for the extra equipment.

 

[Reefering1]

I dunno... i do sit at home (work from home) but my current tank is only 5-6 months old and my alk testing is down to around 5-8 days now. Unless I need to make an adjustment, then I'll check again in a couple days.

And I'm not saying anything is wrong with that.. but if you were to test it every hour, everyday, and graph it-it would open your eyes to how the ph and lighting, what time you dose(or every other change to the tank) effect consumption. How much having a couple people over will lower ph, then consumption. All about ironing out the graph for stability. But, I agree with the other guys saying they don't trust it enough to let it control dosing.

 

[d2mini]

And I'm not saying anything is wrong with that.. but if you were to test it every hour, everyday, and graph it-it would open your eyes to how the ph and lighting, what time you dose(or every other change to the tank) effect consumption. How much having a couple people over will lower ph, then consumption. All about ironing out the graph for stability. But, I agree with the other guys saying they don't trust it enough to let it control dosing.

Yeah I can see how it would shift throughout the day, but how much do you typically see over 24 hours? I have no clue.

So my first question... let's say that right now I tested Alk to be 8.2. And a week ago I tested Alk and it was also 8.2.
How much do you think it might be shifting over a 24 hour period?

And second question... how much of an affect is that shift having on my coral?

Before these kH devices existed, I don't think anyone ever tested daily, let alone multiple times per day. We would have thought that was proposterous. So I'm curious how much it actually helps if you were testing that much AND making corrections along the way. Also, you'd think that if it dropped slightly and then corrected, you'd be too high later in the day???

 

[BeanAnimal]

Fan boys?

huh?

I ran a reef for ~20 years without automation.
I despise testing, always have.
I despise manual dosing, always have.

I decided to give Triton a try.

I recently bought into a GHL setup with the KH Director as part of that. The KH director and GHL dosing pumps allow me to simply look at a screen a few times a week to make sure things are on track and/or adjust as needed.

In theory (at least for reasonable timespans) the balanced dosing based off of KH readings will keep the 3 major (and in the case of Triton, trace) elements in balance.

I am the furthest than from a fan boy you will ever find. I am not interested in fiddling with testing and dosing or going down any rabbit holes... I am simply looking for simplicity to allow me to enjoy the only real aspect of the hobby that I care about anymore... peering into the artificial reef.

 

[Reefering1]

Yeah I can see how it would shift throughout the day, but how much do you typically see over 24 hours? I have no clue.

So my first question... let's say that right now I tested Alk to be 8.2. And a week ago I tested Alk and it was also 8.2.
How much do you think it might be shifting over a 24 hour period?

And second question... how much of an affect is that shift having on my coral?

Before these kH devices existed, I don't think anyone ever tested daily, let alone multiple times per day. We would have thought that was proposterous. So I'm curious how much it actually helps if you were testing that much ANY making corrections along the way. Also, you'd think that if it dropped slightly and then corrected, you'd be too high later in the day???

You ever have a acro stn? Ever heard that whatever caused it likely happened a couple weeks before you can visually notice a problem exists? What if you could know something is wrong that day... it doesn't tell you what is wrong, just that the corals don't like something- waaay before they start losing flesh. Disclaimer: I kind of suck at reef keeping- I'm no coral whisperer. It just helped me get in tune with the corals and tank as a whole.

 

[Reefering1]

Yeah I can see how it would shift throughout the day, but how much do you typically see over 24 hours? I have no clue.

So my first question... let's say that right now I tested Alk to be 8.2. And a week ago I tested Alk and it was also 8.2.
How much do you think it might be shifting over a 24 hour period?

And second question... how much of an affect is that shift having on my coral?

Before these kH devices existed, I don't think anyone ever tested daily, let alone multiple times per day. We would have thought that was proposterous. So I'm curious how much it actually helps if you were testing that much AND making corrections along the way. Also, you'd think that if it dropped slightly and then corrected, you'd be too high later in the day???

But to answer your question... I probably shift .2 throughout the day. No clue how much that matters to corals, before I used to dose most alk at night for ph boost, had .7 swing throughout the day. But it would test the same at a given time. I don't correct based off one day of lower consumption, I check that everything is running properly(flow,aeration, room co2, lights etc). If it continues to decline for 2 or 3 days I will back off doser until I get consumption to climb for 2 or 3 days then adjust again. Calcium reactors were much more popular back when they didn't test that often, right? I've only been at it for like 7 or 8 years