nothing_fancy
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The Neptune Robot Arms are way outside my budget, thats why I go with the reservoir full of GHL trained Rats™ to deal with those clogged line problems when they arise. Also fully controllable via the app
Why are people so excited over KH automation?
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certain_code
Active Member
I think it is mainly a few things and I have considered most as I am about a year and a half into my tank that will ideally be SPS dominant in the coming months. Here are I think the main allures, most already being mentioned here.
1. Travel - Probably the biggest one but being out of town for more than a week means you can monitor and guide a non-reefer to take any action that might be needed. This then sort of also plays into the insurance aspect mentioned below but sometimes just knowing or being able to confirm things when away from the tank is a nice thing to have.
2. Consistency - While I agree testing with something like the Hanna is fast and easy, there are still arguably more variables involved that you can rule out with automation. Whether that has a substantial role in your results can also be debated but consistency is probably something some people need both in the testing interval and also the process itself.
4. Insurance - With the amount of time and money invested in some tanks it makes a ton of sense to me to have something you can rely on even as a gut check to make sure all systems are operational. While I am also trying to keep things simple for my tank I am also building as much redundancy for insurance on my tank as possible. Float switches backed up by a LLS, Heaters backed up by a heater controller backed up by the Apex. Why not back up your reactor or doser with an automated tester in case you program something wrong or the doser dies?
5. Trending and relationship monitoring - I think there is generally a lot of value in collecting the most data possible to then look at later. Sure you can manually do this but again consistently measuring parameters at the same time ever X days will rule out some variability in the data. Understanding the relationship between pH and Alk is just one example where consistent and robust data can help understand what might be happening with your tank. Manually recording data now I have found that even when I measure Alk at 9am on the weekends but 5pm on the weekdays due to work or whatever means that some analysis I find a bit more challenging to definitively point to a solution.
6. Gear heads - Of course, some people just want the latest and as technology advances so does the desire for some to have the next cool thing.
1. Travel - Probably the biggest one but being out of town for more than a week means you can monitor and guide a non-reefer to take any action that might be needed. This then sort of also plays into the insurance aspect mentioned below but sometimes just knowing or being able to confirm things when away from the tank is a nice thing to have.
2. Consistency - While I agree testing with something like the Hanna is fast and easy, there are still arguably more variables involved that you can rule out with automation. Whether that has a substantial role in your results can also be debated but consistency is probably something some people need both in the testing interval and also the process itself.
4. Insurance - With the amount of time and money invested in some tanks it makes a ton of sense to me to have something you can rely on even as a gut check to make sure all systems are operational. While I am also trying to keep things simple for my tank I am also building as much redundancy for insurance on my tank as possible. Float switches backed up by a LLS, Heaters backed up by a heater controller backed up by the Apex. Why not back up your reactor or doser with an automated tester in case you program something wrong or the doser dies?
5. Trending and relationship monitoring - I think there is generally a lot of value in collecting the most data possible to then look at later. Sure you can manually do this but again consistently measuring parameters at the same time ever X days will rule out some variability in the data. Understanding the relationship between pH and Alk is just one example where consistent and robust data can help understand what might be happening with your tank. Manually recording data now I have found that even when I measure Alk at 9am on the weekends but 5pm on the weekdays due to work or whatever means that some analysis I find a bit more challenging to definitively point to a solution.
6. Gear heads - Of course, some people just want the latest and as technology advances so does the desire for some to have the next cool thing.
OP
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d2mini
5000 Club Member
recently, around .1-.2 difference. I've been adding sps frags but they're not reallly growing yet. A little encrusting.
For me. I automatically test for Alk but don't dose based on it. That really scares me.
I started automatically testing after becoming a new dad and realizing I had far less time. I would go days without really looking at the tank. I found that sometimes something like a small brown jelly infection would get a lot worse because the alk consumption would drop but my dosing pumps would dose the same so by the end of the week the alk would increase 2 points or more. Now the alk consumption just lets me know that I should give the corals a good look. If it is going up things are going well and if it goes down I need to immediately find out why. I always test manually when I get a strange result to confirm but I often wouldn't have checked the tank if I didn't see that things weren't going well.
I started automatically testing after becoming a new dad and realizing I had far less time. I would go days without really looking at the tank. I found that sometimes something like a small brown jelly infection would get a lot worse because the alk consumption would drop but my dosing pumps would dose the same so by the end of the week the alk would increase 2 points or more. Now the alk consumption just lets me know that I should give the corals a good look. If it is going up things are going well and if it goes down I need to immediately find out why. I always test manually when I get a strange result to confirm but I often wouldn't have checked the tank if I didn't see that things weren't going well.
rtparty
2500 Club Member
Because after almost 18 years in the hobby, I know for a fact I will not test weekly. I won't even test monthly if it is left to me. I truly hate testing and learned that about myself years ago. So the Trident is easily top 3 best items I have ever added to my tank. Throw in Trident controlled dosing and my tank is on true cruise control that I could never provide.
I almost never travel, yet I am rarely home so having that peace of mind that something is at least monitoring the tank is crucial to my success and the livelihood of my corals and fish.
Even if you didn't use the automated systems to control things, monitoring it multiple times a day has serious benefit IMO. If you had 2 tanks, 1 had automated parameter monitoring and the other didn't, which one do you think would be more successful long term? Again, you can take control out of the picture if you aren't comfortable with that aspect. Just monitoring alone if you so wish.
I almost never travel, yet I am rarely home so having that peace of mind that something is at least monitoring the tank is crucial to my success and the livelihood of my corals and fish.
Even if you didn't use the automated systems to control things, monitoring it multiple times a day has serious benefit IMO. If you had 2 tanks, 1 had automated parameter monitoring and the other didn't, which one do you think would be more successful long term? Again, you can take control out of the picture if you aren't comfortable with that aspect. Just monitoring alone if you so wish.
Rusty_L_Shackleford
Active Member
I would love to automate. Ive tried to put my tank together so that it can run itself for awhile. Auto top off, inkbird wifi heater controller, timers, about to add an auto doser. Life happens. During the holidays, ill be working 12+ hours a day 6 days a week. There are a lot of days ill have time after work to shower, eat and go to bed. Plus my wife and i like to travel and go away for the weekend. Having full control and automation would give me a lot of peace of mind. Its not in the tank buget right now.I think the older I get, the less I care about futzing around with electronic devices.So it really has to make my life easier and it really has to be a good value.
I'm past the point of just wanting cool new toys. I'd rather keep things as simple as possible. Or it has to really add value in some way.
This is why I'm wondering what is so enticing about hardware like kh director, alkatronic, etc.
Explain it to me like I'm 5!
My feelings about Alk in general:
1. It's the easiest thing to test for. I use a hanna checker. From start to finish it probably takes me ~60 seconds. So NOT having to check it is not really doing me much of a favor.
2. Alk is so easy to keep stable once your tank is cruising. I'm less than 6 months in on the new tank and I test Alk around once per week and it's stable. Will eventually go longer.
3. A standard doser is so easy.
4. There are so many other elements to worry about... why so concerned with just Alk? If there is a sudden increase in Alk uptake, well then the same is probably true for calcium. Seems like there is no a bigger chance of things going out of balance.
So what am I missing? Why are these things so enticing?
I'm really curious and wondering if i *should* 99be wanting one or if it doesn't fit my style of reefing.
OP
OP
d2mini
5000 Club Member
I've gone away for a week at a time, no issues. Just basic monitoring. I do have someone come over to feed though, just because I normally feed frozen and dont trust an autofeeder for dry.
The best automation I ever had was automatic daily water changes... a dozen times per day, small amounts.
This is the first tank in a decade or more that doesn't have this. But its also the smallest tank.
Anyway, I like certain automation, i just wasn't getting the need for the kh automation.
I think the older I get, the less I care about futzing around with electronic devices.
I'm past the point of just wanting cool new toys. I'd rather keep things as simple as possible. Or it has to really add value in some way.
This is why I'm wondering what is so enticing about hardware like kh director, alkatronic, etc.
Explain it to me like I'm 5!
My feelings about Alk in general:
1. It's the easiest thing to test for. I use a hanna checker. From start to finish it probably takes me ~60 seconds. So NOT having to check it is not really doing me much of a favor.
2. Alk is so easy to keep stable once your tank is cruising. I'm less than 6 months in on the new tank and I test Alk around once per week and it's stable. Will eventually go longer.
3. A standard doser is so easy.
4. There are so many other elements to worry about... why so concerned with just Alk? If there is a sudden increase in Alk uptake, well then the same is probably true for calcium. Seems like there is no a bigger chance of things going out of balance.
So what am I missing? Why are these things so enticing?
I'm really curious and wondering if i *should* be wanting one or if it doesn't fit my style of reefing.
People like automating.
These would come in handy for someone who is running a CARX or dosing AFR.
Not so much needed for 2 part monitoring
Crustaceon
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I think IceCap offers hamsters at a lower price point. Not sure if they’re “moneybags” orange. Need to confirm that one.
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In a tank full of frags, you don't need automation for testing and dosing alk. In this 75 gallon SPS tank that sucks up over 2 dkh a day however, yes, it is required for stability in my case.I think the older I get, the less I care about futzing around with electronic devices.
I'm past the point of just wanting cool new toys. I'd rather keep things as simple as possible. Or it has to really add value in some way.
This is why I'm wondering what is so enticing about hardware like kh director, alkatronic, etc.
Explain it to me like I'm 5!
My feelings about Alk in general:
1. It's the easiest thing to test for. I use a hanna checker. From start to finish it probably takes me ~60 seconds. So NOT having to check it is not really doing me much of a favor.
2. Alk is so easy to keep stable once your tank is cruising. I'm less than 6 months in on the new tank and I test Alk around once per week and it's stable. Will eventually go longer.
3. A standard doser is so easy.
4. There are so many other elements to worry about... why so concerned with just Alk? If there is a sudden increase in Alk uptake, well then the same is probably true for calcium. Seems like there is no a bigger chance of things going out of balance.
So what am I missing? Why are these things so enticing?
I'm really curious and wondering if i *should* be wanting one or if it doesn't fit my style of reefing.
I use to feel the exact same way until I got an alkatronic, then a second one, it really is the bee's knee's, I still yell at the neighborhood kids to get off my yard though.I think the older I get, the less I care about futzing around with electronic devices.
I'm past the point of just wanting cool new toys. I'd rather keep things as simple as possible. Or it has to really add value in some way.
This is why I'm wondering what is so enticing about hardware like kh director, alkatronic, etc.
Explain it to me like I'm 5!
My feelings about Alk in general:
1. It's the easiest thing to test for. I use a hanna checker. From start to finish it probably takes me ~60 seconds. So NOT having to check it is not really doing me much of a favor.
2. Alk is so easy to keep stable once your tank is cruising. I'm less than 6 months in on the new tank and I test Alk around once per week and it's stable. Will eventually go longer.
3. A standard doser is so easy.
4. There are so many other elements to worry about... why so concerned with just Alk? If there is a sudden increase in Alk uptake, well then the same is probably true for calcium. Seems like there is no a bigger chance of things going out of balance.
So what am I missing? Why are these things so enticing?
I'm really curious and wondering if i *should* be wanting one or if it doesn't fit my style of reefing.
OP
OP
d2mini
5000 Club Member
This is not my first tank though. I've had up to 200g full of sps and LPS.In a tank full of frags, you don't need automation for testing and dosing alk. In this 75 gallon SPS tank that sucks up over 2 dkh a day however, yes, it is required for stability in my case.
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d2mini
5000 Club Member
I seriously felt like this guy when making my intial post.I use to feel the exact same way until I got an alkatronic, then a second one, it really is the bee's knee's, I still yell at the neighborhood kids to get off my yard though.
I feel like this guy a lot lately.
DannoOMG
Active Member
What kind of doser do you use?I think the older I get, the less I care about futzing around with electronic devices.
I'm past the point of just wanting cool new toys. I'd rather keep things as simple as possible. Or it has to really add value in some way.
This is why I'm wondering what is so enticing about hardware like kh director, alkatronic, etc.
Explain it to me like I'm 5!
My feelings about Alk in general:
1. It's the easiest thing to test for. I use a hanna checker. From start to finish it probably takes me ~60 seconds. So NOT having to check it is not really doing me much of a favor.
2. Alk is so easy to keep stable once your tank is cruising. I'm less than 6 months in on the new tank and I test Alk around once per week and it's stable. Will eventually go longer.
3. A standard doser is so easy.
4. There are so many other elements to worry about... why so concerned with just Alk? If there is a sudden increase in Alk uptake, well then the same is probably true for calcium. Seems like there is no a bigger chance of things going out of balance.
So what am I missing? Why are these things so enticing?
I'm really curious and wondering if i *should* be wanting one or if it doesn't fit my style of reefing.
OP
OP
d2mini
5000 Club Member
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Reefering1
Valuable Member
For me, the best part is the ability to graph kh uptake day to day, week after week. Watch the trends. If I let my alkatronic test every hour, I can tell something is wrong that day(within hours). Rather than 2 or 3 weeks later when corals are receding or visibly not well. Doesn't tell you what is wrong, but gives you a couple weeks head start figuring it out. I let it test automatically, but won't let it adjust dosing. I'll make changes as I see fit
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I'd think lifestyle has a lot to do with who buys automation equipment. Such as how much free time a person has in a day, and how much they enjoy testing and dosing. But there are those who have to own new and expensive stuff all the time too.This is not my first tank though. I've had up to 200g full of sps and LPS.
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